Need buying advice ...

Lifer · Post by **Lifer** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:49 am

If the whole truck is sagging to one side, it's definately a spring issue...either weak springs, broken leafs, or both. If the springs aren't broken, they can be re-arched and retempered by a decent spring shop, but new ones would be the best way to go. There are new springs available, but I don't know where you would have to get them or how much they would cost. It's also possible to have new springs custom made, but that's a very expensive way to go and only recommended as a last resort.

On the hard top issue, they aren't terribly hard to remove. In many cases, the lip (channel) that holds the front of the canvas tops to the top of the windshield was removed when the hard top was installed. If that's the case with your truck and you want to install a canvas top, you'll have to get a replacement channel.

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:53 am

VPW has the springs available. I got a front pair NOS for $100 each plus shipping, still in OD paint. John at Midwest might also have them. My truck sagged in the same manner as you described-the new springs took care of that.
Gary

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/p ... prings.pdf

vascrats · Post by **vascrats** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:31 am

This will show my raging newbieness but the truck has both springs and shocks correct? If shocks were completely shot, it would not sag would it? It would probalby have a very bouncy ride or something I would imagine.

How hard is it to change the springs out? Are there special tools involved or major risk of decapitation or the like?

I would imagine the shipping on the springs would be a pretty penny!

On another note, the truck seems fairly rust free but I think I see some rot underneith the headlights (what a surprise

). Are replacement fenders hard to come buy and expensive? Looks like I just need to get a VPW catalog to me

.

Thanks for all of the advice to date.

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:29 pm

Keep asking! That's how you learn. Yes, shocks and springs. Dead shocks don't cause the sagging-tired springs do. My shocks came from Fred at Adirondack Dodge and are the commercial equivalent of the military shock but w/o the armor on the shock casing.

http://www.adirondackdodgeparts.com/prod1.htm#Exterior

Yes, I did this job by myself about three years ago. It can be done-Safety First! You need adequate lift in the front, and double the lift with a safety back-up harness. You need to be absolutely sure the front end won't come crashing down when you're trying to fit the new springs in place, and chock the vehicle where it can't move forward or backward. Also be aware of the old spring retaining pins: if you are using a socket and ratchet, use liberal amounts of PB blaster or some other lubricant on the old threads because the old pins tend to overcome the pin head stops and start turning in place. If you have a good impact wrench, lube the threads, let em'soak, then gun the nuts off with the impact-this action usually gets the nuts off w/o the pins turning. Don't be surprised if the pins need replacing-in fact I recommend it along with the back shackle brackets as they tend to "wallow out", becoming oval-shaped and will cause instability if not addressed.
Gary

m-37Bruce · Post by **m-37Bruce** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:41 pm

Hey Gary, vascrats,
I hoping that you also replaced the bushings when you did the shocks & pins?,
TTYL,

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:45 am

Hey Bruce, hope all is well!
Absolutely! The new springs had new bushings complete with Cosmolene-carb cleaner took that off.

Fenders-harder to come by but still available-DO NOT order from Surplus City Jeep in NOCAL-their prices are gaudier than gas prices!
Gary

Lifer · Post by **Lifer** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:10 am

vascrats wrote:...the truck has both springs and shocks correct? If shocks were completely shot, it would not sag would it? It would probalby have a very bouncy ride or something I would imagine.

Yes, our trucks have both springs and shocks. If the springs are weak or broken, good shocks will not stop it from sagging. All the shocks do is slow the compression of the springs when hitting a bump and slow their rebound afterwards. If the springs are good and the shocks are shot, you're right...you'll have a very bouncy ride. If the springs and shocks are both bad, you'll have a very bumpy ride that will jar your teeth out!

m-37Bruce · Post by **m-37Bruce** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:43 am

Cal_Gary wrote:Hey Bruce, hope all is well!
Absolutely! The new springs had new bushings complete with Cosmolene-carb cleaner took that off.

Fenders-harder to come by but still available-DO NOT order from Surplus City Jeep in NOCAL-their prices are gaudier than gas prices!
Gary

Are you needing front or rear fenders? I thought I had a fender in SO CAL, but the shipping made the whole deal moot! Freight is starting to hurt a lot of folks.
I did land a single rear in Belair, MD, picked it up on my way home from Levittown last week. Then I figured out how to make my original one look real nice.

vascrats · Post by **vascrats** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:30 pm

A guy I work with says that there is a spring place in town that can rebend or somehow recondition used springs. Have you all heard of such a thing and if so, is that a bad idea?

I would assume if a spring is 'broken' I will easily be able to see that right?

vascrats · Post by **vascrats** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:39 pm

Lifer wrote: If the springs aren't broken, they can be re-arched and retempered by a decent spring shop, but new ones would be the best way to go.

Oops, sorry Lifer, I see where you mentioned a spring shop a few posts ago.

Has anyone done this with their springs and had good results?

Like I say, I don't mind $100 each but the shipping can't be cheap on those.

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:49 am

Not always so obvious to spot a broken spring but my driver's side was, and was easy to spot because the two pieces were separated by 1/4 inch, and was nose-diving left. Take a look:

http://www.g741.org/m37registry/display ... nercount=1

Those pictures were taken the day I bought the truck.

As far as the shipping for the springs, I recall it wasn't as bad as it could have been-something like $275 total for two new springs shipped from Iowa to California. The much-maligned Ahl Guide has an article about beefing up your springs and included a notation about taking them to a truck suspension shop to have them re-formed back to their 5 1/4 inches of arch.

Since I'm in CA it was less expensive for me to just purchase new springs.
Gary

vascrats · Post by **vascrats** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:44 am

I am told there is a good spring shop in Roanoke here. If you took your springs to them provided they were not broken, what information do they need to do their work (specs?).

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:57 pm

I think the degree of arch is all that's required (5 and 1/4 inches). If there is additional info needed, I do not know. Check with the suspension shop. Also, if you go this route, it is recommended that you install new bushings unless your existing bushings are still tight.
Gary

vascrats · Post by **vascrats** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:39 am

Cal_Gary wrote:Keep asking! That's how you learn.

You asked for it...

I know I should wait until I see the truck tomorrow but as far as the whole truck leaning thing and the springs go I have two more questions.

If the truck is visibly leaning to one side would it be most likely a spring is broken as I would imagine that the springs should degrade somewhat uniformly as opposed to one side seeing much greater sag due to them just being weak?

Secondly, I was looking at the parts and prices at VPW and I see both a front and rear 'spring repair kit'. It looks like one kit should do both springs (front or rear). Is that correct? Secondly, Do those kits just contain the parts shown and no springs as the price is rather expensive

? Could one get by with just being sure the bushings are good as they seem to be the most mentioned here?

I know my questions are a bit random at the moment but if you guys like to talk about M37s, I love to listen

.

Phil

MSeriesRebuild · Post by **MSeriesRebuild** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:31 am

vascrats wrote:I am getting ready to look at a guy's truck this weekend and from what I remember seeing in a picture (can't find at this time) it looked like the left bumper (as it is a winch model) was angled down a bit and also the left fender looked like it was sagging down as well. He said on the phone tonight that the 'entire truck' is sagging a bit to the passenger side.

Can someone tell me what may be going on and what I should look for with such a symptom? Could this be an issue with spring(s)?

If it is springs, are they readily available? Any idea on price?

Also, the truck is a hard top. Are the hard tops easily removeable?

Last question...Would the hard top have to be remved if I wanted to fold the windshield down to look for rust underneith it?

Thanks as always!!!
Phil

Any number of issues can contribute to vehicle sag. A stuck shock can do it. Springs with worn eye bushings, worn pins, fatigued spring leaves, etc. Spacers could be missing from spring perches if it's a B1 with a door mounted spare tire. When one sags on the left, more often than not, it's the spacer issue. Top will have to be removed to lay the windshield down.

Need buying advice ...

Bushings