LU-4 Winch: Missing Breather and Redi-Sleeve

[Elwood]

So I've got my LU-4 winch in pieces...

Comparing the parts that are scattered across the work bench against the bill of materials in the ORD 9 SNL, I noticed that there are supposed to be two air vents, one in the worm housing cover (found it), and one in the clutch housing. Except that my winch does not have a vent in the clutch housing, and no sign of there ever having been one. Is the ORD 9 SNL incorrect? Did Braden forget to drill, tap, and install a second vent in my winch? Is the second vent even necessary, since the clutch housing could probably vent to the atmosphere through the inside of the drum, although that venting would require air movement through the two drum bushing-type bearings, and the inboard bushing-type bearing in the worm housing.

Since the large seal between the clutch housing and the drum was leaking, I'm inclined to think that there should be a vent on the clutch end, and that venting through those bushings isn't very effective.

Which brings up another question: has anyone ever found a Redi-Sleeve or a Speedy-Sleeve or equivalent for that large 4.5" seal on the clutch end of the drum? There's a gap in sizes from 4.442" (p/n 99439) to 4.496" (p/n 99450) of the Redi-Sleeves in the Timken catalog, and since the seal face on the drum measures 4.471" (both of the drums I have measured this size), neither one will fit.

[just me]

There is no vent in either of my winches clutch side. I have not needed to sleeve that big surface on either winch, so no help there.

[Elwood]

Thanks for the reply, just me. The clutch-side seal surfaces on both of my winch drums don't look too bad, but since this one was leaking, I usually err on the side of caution and put a Redi-Sleeve on anything that's been leaking.

I noticed in one of your winch posts over on steelsoldiers, that your original LU-4 winch had steel bearing retainers on the worm shaft. Do you think those were original? I was under the impression that the LU-4 retainers, which have an "LU" prefix part number, indicating "lightweight", were aluminum, and the bearing retainers for the MU-2 winch were steel. Or did someone previously swap some parts around to assemble a usable winch?

[just me]

The steel bearing retainers were on a winch that I removed from an M35A2. I assumed they were a depot replacement of parts and all they had were MU retainers. The only difference was the material. Dimensionally they are the same. Since the aluminum housings showed warpage and stress from overloading, I used the steel/iron ones. The leftover carcass will be at the swap meet for cheap. I'm too lazy to try and ebay off the good parts. I just want it and my parts donor NP200 out from under foot.

[Tuko]

Here's mseries rebuild solution to the problem, a stainless steel sleeve. maybe Charles can elaborate:

[isaac_alaska]

it wouldn't be any big deal to get the smaller redi sleeve, and have a machine shop turn the end of your winch drum down the necessary amount to fit the sleeve. LocTite makes a sleeve retainer product designed for size difference of up to .007 in diameter, which would work well for retaining the redi-sleeve. I think for stainless it calls for the use of an activator to help it set.

[just me]

Using a modern lip seal instead of the very thick leather seal gives you opportunity to seat the seal where there is no wear.

[Elwood]

Here's mseries rebuild solution to the problem, a stainless steel sleeve. maybe Charles can elaborate:

Tuko, thanks for posting that photo. I'm guessing that they had the drum seal surface turned down to the size for the next smallest Redi-Sleeve (99439), and then used a slightly undersized seal with the same OD to fit the clutch housing counterbore (such as a National 417295).

[Elwood]

it wouldn't be any big deal to get the smaller redi sleeve, and have a machine shop turn the end of your winch drum down the necessary amount to fit the sleeve. LocTite makes a sleeve retainer product designed for size difference of up to .007 in diameter, which would work well for retaining the redi-sleeve. I think for stainless it calls for the use of an activator to help it set.

The gap between the existing drum seal face OD of 4.471" and the smallest acceptable diameter of 4.496" for the 99450 Redi-Sleeve is 0.025". Even the Loctite 660 Quick Metal Gap filler will only go up to 0.020", unfortunately. And at that amount of fill, I'd be worried about concentricity of the sleeve on the drum.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Here's mseries rebuild solution to the problem, a stainless steel sleeve. maybe Charles can elaborate:

Tuko, thanks for posting that photo. I'm guessing that they had the drum seal surface turned down to the size for the next smallest Redi-Sleeve (99439), and then used a slightly undersized seal with the same OD to fit the clutch housing counterbore (such as a National 417295).

No we did not use a redi-sleeve or undersized seal, as this is one of those cases where no redi-sleeve in manufactured within the realm of correct specs. This picture, which was taken from the M Series Facebook page shows the end result of what we do to repair this, it is definitely a permanent repair. We chuck up the drum in a lathe, turn the minimum material required from the flange to get back round with a good finish, usually doesn't take much. We turn a stainless sleeve from bar stock, press it onto the newly finished flange surface, then finish the sleeve OD to original specs. We replace the original leather seal with a current production Buna-N seal. The final step to getting a leak free installation is very important. Perfect alignment of the worm housing in relation to the clutch housing is imperative, if it isn't perfect, the drum does not run on a true center in relation to the seals on either end, out of center here will let oil leak no matter what you do in relation to seals or sleeves.