Trying to get engine started-It's running!

[isaac_alaska]

Trying to get the engine started and running. When I first picked it up, it was a bit warmer outside, and it started and ran, but not well. The lower carb-manifold gasket was bad, the throttle linkage was really worn, and the accelerator pump was shrunk and couldn't have been doing much, if anything. After rebuilding the carb and throttle linkage, I can't get it to start. It coughs, but only a little. Any ideas as to what I should look for first? I inspected the distrubutor today, points look good. Which way does the distributor get turned to advance the timing?

Battery voltage is right about 24, I need to charge the batteries, but the engine does crank over.

Plugs are pretty dirty, I sprayed them with electrical cleaner and heated with torch, they are still pretty black though.

What are the resistance specs on the coil? (This I think I can look up, in the book, tonight)

I'm thinking new plugs and fully charge battery will be a good starting point but wanted to hear your opinions!

I have 3 new champion EHO-8 plugs I'll sell anyone who wants them, they have slightly narrower inner necks and don't fit my plug wires

[w30bob]

Hi Isaac,

First off.....is the choke fully operational? Second, is the fuel system in good shape? Third.....are you getting 24V to the distributor? I'd check those things first.......choke works, you're getting gas to the carb, and distributor is getting power. If those are all good check the coil with a voltmeter and pull a plug and check for spark with the ground electrode touching the block. If you question the plugs check them all. Once it's running check the timing and move the heat riser to the winter position.

regards,
bob

[isaac_alaska]

As far as I can tell the choke is working. When I had it apart, the lever on the outside was moving the butterfly valve, and assembled now the choke cable is moving the lever.

Definitely have fuel to the carb, I didn't reef on the air horn screws when I first assembled it and there was a bit of fuel seeping out around the edge, tightened the screws down another turn or so since then. Plugs came out real wet, which to me is another indicator the choke is doing its job. I think I still need to learn how much it wants the accelerator pumped. My other truck, I give it about 2 pumps and then bump the accelerator with my heel as I hold the starter.

I recall seeing a plug on the distributor, does that happen to be above the coil terminals, so you can pull the access plug and verify 24V at the coil?

Taking a pair of battery chargers and a long cord tomorrow and I'll charge the batteries a few hours. I know they aren't full, they're right on the edge of being enough to crank it over.

What spark plug should be used? i looked on ebay and all i can find are autolite, they seem to be the way to go these days. the book specifies AR5S, which cross-references to autolite 2243. I found this page which shows 2243 being the coldest plug, and by looking on ebay it looks like 2245 is the other popular option. Is there any harm in going with the hotter "medium heat" plug? The hottest weather i can ever imagine this truck running in might be 80 degrees, but right now it's around 35F during the day and dropping a few degrees every day.

[w30bob]

Hi Isaac,

The correct heat range of the plug isn't really about the ambient temp the operates in........it's more about how the engine is operating. You select the plug heat range by the condition of the plug tip in regards to tip fouling. You're balancing tip overheating (too hot) and fouling (too cold). Every engine is a bit different, and it depends a lot on how you use the vehicle, meaning does it idle for days or are you driving around wide open in second gear all the time. So if the plugs appear fouled, go up a range (hotter) and check again.....but don't confuse fuel fowling with oil fouling.....that' a whole other issue plug range won't fix. You shouldn't have any problems with the 2245's.

As for popping the big nut off the distributor cap........don't bother. Take the whole cap off. It's one of the next troubleshooting steps anyway.....and you'll want to check the condition of things under the cap (condensation, cracks, check the condenser, etc).
Did you check for voltage at the distributor and then spark at the plugs?

The battery voltage should be 12.6 v each when fully charged.

later,
bob

[isaac_alaska]

The reason i ask about the nut is because i just had the distributor out and the cap off yesterday, and everything looked like it was in pretty good shape. The only thing that concerned me a little bit was the advance timing flyweights seemed a bit sticky because someone had used grease on them. i wiped them off as well as i could and sprayed them with electrical contact cleaner, and that seemed to help a bit. do i need to pull them apart and get all of the grease out?

i also did not check the coil resistance values, or the condesor value, figuring that since it was running when i shut it off it should still be okay. maybe i better check anyway.

is it best to pull the whole distributor, or just take the six screws out of the cap? when i was working on it it seemed like the 6 screws wouldn't be as hard to pull as it was to get the vent lines and the timing screw out

[w30bob]

HI Isaac,

Understood........you said it was running before.........but not well. Not well has now turned into not at all. So if it were me, heading into winter up where you are.....I'd want to have a look at the condition under the distributor cover and the cap. I'd take off the cap vice pulling the distributor, unless you find a lot of slop in the shaft bushings when you're in there. Magnetize a screwdriver by rubbing the tip of the screwdriver back and forth real fast on a flat magnet. Once magnetized it will hold onto those 6 little screws as you remove them from the cover. By "cover" I mean the part the plug wires screw onto, and by "cap" I mean the part under the cover that goes over the rotor. You then need to take off the cap and look inside. You're looking for any moisture, corrosion or cracks. Also check the points and if they're oxidized file them down just enough to clean them. Small flat file is better than sandpaper, which rounds off the points and leaves sandy grit all over the place. Most nail clippers have a small file that folds under the clippers...works really well. Check the coil and condenser. You can also check to make sure you've got 24v at the coil, not just at the input of the distributor. If all looks good you've just bought yourself some piece of mind......and it's not fun messing with the distributor on the side of the road.....at 20 below.......in the dark.......where friggin' Grizzly Bears live. I know........they're hibernating.....you hope.

The advance weights/springs/mechanism needs to be spotlessly clean. You never lube that stuff with grease. I'm sure the guy before you had the best of intentions, but he simply didn't understand how the advance mechanism works. You don't want anything impeding the movement of those components. While you're in there check the distributor shaft bushings by grabbing the breaker plate and seeing if it has a lot of play. If it does..........you know the drill......out she comes and fix/replace it.

regards,
bob

[isaac_alaska]

Thanks for the insight, i think i'll take the whole thing back apart again, and clean all the grease out of everything, like you suggested. I know the lubrication point on the side of the distributor is supposed to be something for oil to go in.... i think? right? Mine has been replaced with a grease zerk. I'll get photos today. I also need to get it apart and replace the main supply wire, it's pretty rough where it enters the distributor, and i THINK it's intact and making connection, but that's another possible point of failure. Yesterday i wasn't able to tell how it all comes apart and the wire itself comes out, but today i think i'll just cut the wire it's spliced into and see if taking it inside where it's warm and light will help me get it apart maybe mineral spirits for cleaning the inside of the distributor, where the flyweights are? I have some engine degreaser i might try first, since i already have it.

[ashyers]

Issac,
If you're working with the distributor, it's pretty straight forward to pull it. It makes things much easier!

We had a problem similar to yours when we first started working on the truck. I was ready to blame the carb, but we pulled the distributor and replaced the points/condenser, cleaned up the weights, replaced the feed wire and lubed the bearings. Fixed our "carb" problem! The spark was so weak we were fouling plugs, but it ran! With your mention of the zerk fitting, I'd definitely pull the distributor! I'm pretty sure grease in there is not the hot ticket. There's a wick in side to transfer oil to the bushings, something tells me grease would be bad news. We added a 90deg fitting so we could oil the bushings occasionally from above.

Andy

[isaac_alaska]

I have the distributor apart, and everything tests good. Coil resistance on primary (5.6 ohm) and secondary side to ground (8 megohm), and condenser (around .26 microfarad, after I realized I needed points open to test it!) supply wire tests good, but I want to replace it anyway because it's got 3 splices in it now. Can the connectors be ordered from vpw or mwm, where the wire supplies power to the coil?

No noticeable side play in the distributor shaft, and only a small bit of end play. I pulled the shaft out to get the weights cleaned easier. Not sure how to pull the top piece with lobes that the points ride on, apart from the rest of the shaft, so I can get the weights off to get them completely clean.

I did check for spark on cylinder 1 and 2 and couldn't see any, so it does appear that either the distributor or spark plugs is the problem. I disn't hold the plug in my hand to test for spark that way, maybe next time....

At least I have a set of new plugs on order from Napa

Edit- now I have the weights off

Edit again: for some reason I was thinking high voltage coil resistance measurement should be taken between high voltage lead and ground... That's what I get for thinking. After reading, looks like the correct measurement Is between the high voltage lead, and either of the low voltage terminals. The coil that was installed looks crusty on the bottom, and doesn't say USA on it, and the resistance measurement is around 160k-180k, and bouncing around. The other three coils I have measure 14k (diamond brand) 9.9k(made in USA), and 13.4k (made in USA)

Can't find the spec, but 180k seems way too high!

Edit again
Points resistance to ground with points closed, measured 156 ohms, definitely way too high! I attribute it probably to all the junk in here... Filed them and now they read .1 ohm. We are getting closer!

Edit again
One of the vent line elbows on the distributor has been replaced with a standard pipe elbow, instead of a flare elbow. So the vent line can never seal tight. Probably a good amount of water has been running down the line and causing moisture/condensation inside, which would explain all the rust and corrosion.

Edit
Keeping the story going haha. Distributor installed, it tries to fire a bit but still won't quite run. I'm suspecting plugs will help at this point... They should be here in a few days. the fact that it's only 34 degrees here is not helping, I'm sure.

[isaac_alaska]

Today, the truck fired up again! I reset the float height, that may have helped. Also, the sun was out today. For anyone who needs the info, with a spring type float needle, the book specifies a .050" feeler gauge between the float tang and the needle, and held tight. Following this procedure, my float height was more like 10/64 rather than 5/64 as specified in the book. Also, my feeler gauge didn't have a .050" leaf in it, so I stacked the .040 and .010". It's still not running on nearly all the cylinders, maybe as few as 2 or three, but now I'm pretty sure the spark plugs are to blame. My test for "which cylinder is firing" consisted of starting it, letting it run about 30 seconds, and then shutting it off and checking which plugs were warm. The front two are cold, the center two are nearly hot, and the back two are mildly warm.

[isaac_alaska]

Well, today I got the truck running very nicely. Spark plugs came in from Napa, went to pick them up, and they tried to tell me there was a $30 charge for shipping. never heard of that before...but i was able to talk them down to $10 shipping in the end. next time i'll be sure to ask up front.

Replaced all the plugs and the truck fired up immediately and ran and sounded great. Still haven't got a tachometer, compression tester, vacuum gauge, or timing light to get everything tuned in as good as it should be, but those are on my list of "tools to acquire." What kills me is i have all the tools, but they are in nome, and that's almost 900 miles away with no roads between here and there. So i'll probably be heading down to the pawn shop to see what's available on the cheap.

what is the idle speed supposed to be set at? IIRC, the procedure for setting idle speed and idle mixture is to set the idle speed with the adjustment screw on the throttle linkage where it attaches to the carb, then adjust the mixture screw for maximum vacuum at the manifold (which port do i use?) and then reset the idle speed, if necessary.