Tire Balancing

[ashyers]

Hi All,
Since we are trying to make the M37 capable of a sustained 55mph I'm looking for some suggestions related to balancing Budd wheels and NDT's.

We have a Hunter balancer in the shop which is excellent for everything we have thrown at it, but then again it has never seen an M37 tire and wheel assembly! I was looking at balancing the drum/hub assemblies after seeing how wonky the drums were. Then I started thinking about the wheels and tires. Seems to me we need to balance the whole set up or we're wasting our time. To do this I believe I can mount the hub/drum/wheel/tire assembly on the balancer and have at it. **Any suggestions on what to do about weights for the Budd wheels?**

There is also the possibility of using a balancing compound, but I'm not sure how well that will work with tubes. **Do balancing compounds work OK w/ tubes?**

Thanks again!

Andy

[Cal_Gary]

I've seen stick-on weights used on the Budd rims; if you're looking for 55mph you'd best swap in 4.89 gears and perhaps an engine upgrade or you'll be revving up a grenade which will detonate sooner or later.
Gary

[ashyers]

Gary,
Any idea on the approximate amount of weight? I have a sense that I may have more than a few ounces on the wheels.

The 4.89's are in process. Hopefully the engine is up to pulling them.

Andy

[Elwood]

Even with the 4.89 gears, that 230 is going to be working hard to sustain 55 mph. I don't recall ever seeing torque and horsepower curves for the stock 230, but it clearly wasn't intended for high rpm horsepower. And then there's the stock brakes.

I have some rims that were balanced by someone before I bought them. They used the clip on style lead weights, on both the inside and outside of the rim. I've never mounted them, so I don't know how good a job they did, or if they tried to balance with the hubs and drums, too, but there was a fair amount of weight clipped on around the rims.

[F18hornetm]

I balanced all 10 tires on my M931. [Have a truck tire balancer at work]. They use lock band rims as well. You have to use truck weights as they have a larger hook on the back for a thicker rim edge. They worked on the lock band side as well. A passenger car weight has a smaller back hook and wouldn't work on the rims I tried. Made a huge difference.

I'm not sure how much you need to balance the drum. I know most drums are factory balanced with weight welded on or holes drilled. I think I would try tires first. Actually Ive never balanced anything with drums/hubs on the wheels. If it will fit on the machine with the hub and drum bolted to the wheel, I suppose its do-able. I don't think mine would fit on the machine as the drum would stick far outside the wheel making the whole assembly twice as wide as the tire/rim. Just a thought.

[Cal_Gary]

Sorry, I have no info on the weights-I suppose it's based on how much imbalance is present per rim.
Gary

[sturmtyger380]

I talked with an old timer tire guy about balancing these rims and tires. He laughed and asked how fast I would be driving. I said mostly below 45 and maybe higher going down hill.
He said to balance it would not really make much difference.

Alan

[F18hornetm]

He might be right and I know speed does matter sometimes, but My M931 tractor shook it self to pieces at 45 mph, balanced all 10 tires and now it does not. On the other hand, my M813 and M35 have no tires balanced and both drive great. So I guess it depends on how it rides if it would worth to me to try balancing. I haven't had our M37 above 30 yet so this summer hope to find out.

There is no way of knowing how much weight a tire/wheel will take to balance until put on the machine. Every tire is different.

[PoW]

I've found a stock M-37 with 9.00-16 tires is happy @ 47 MPH. It can breeze up to 55 if needed, but that is really hard on the original engine.

42" tires will get them down the road a bit better, and 4.89:1 gearsets will do some, but not as well as the larger tires.

Just my observations from driving them since 1972.

Dennis

[ashyers]

I realize the individual wheel/tire assy's. will each take different amounts of weight, I was just trying to get an idea of how much weight is common with these things. It's rare on autos to see more than an ounce if the wheels and tires are good quality. I suspect on the M it will be a bit more .

[F18hornetm]

Your right an oz or so is good for modern tires. Like you said, But I bet these bias ply tires on lock band rims will take a lot more. Maybe I'd be fooled, but I just have a feeling to. Looked at my rims again and pretty sure they would need truck weights vs car weights. Looking at them the rim edge seems thicker. Let us know how you make out I am curious. Haven't had mine up to 45 or so yet so have no idea how it will do. With no front end on it or cab its not very aerodynamic right now.

[ashyers]

I've got to stop by the local truck place w/ a rim and see if they have some weights that will work. I need some other bits anyway, so that will work out well. It's going to be interesting to see how this goes, I'm going to try the road force balancer. It works VERY well with auto tire/wheel assy's, so I'm hopeful that I can use it with the M. I'll post results when I have 'em, which may take a bit as we have torn what was a "running" truck to pieces over the last month. I'm trying to get something that will move under it's own power by March...we shall see.

[nhjohnny1]

you should look into airsoft pellets or balancing pellets, of roaders use them often due to the amount of weight needed and how vulnerable the weights are to being peeled off under hard use

[MSeriesRebuild]

I talked with an old timer tire guy about balancing these rims and tires. He laughed and asked how fast I would be driving. I said mostly below 45 and maybe higher going down hill.
He said to balance it would not really make much difference.

Alan

Based on what you are doing, this guys advice is spot on. We balance original rims with radials installed all the time, used with disc brake systems. This takes the warped drums and out of round NDT's out of the mix. Balancing is a waste of time and $$ unless everything is truly round. No off road tires such as NDT's meet that criteria, and ALL old drums are warped to some degree.

[F18hornetm]

I gotta admit, my bigger NDTs [900x20s and 1000x20s] drive great with no wheel weights, especially after warmed up. Maybe yours will to.
I still believe if you have some vibration balancing cant hurt. Or at least try before discarding tires. I don't know what they charge for it as Ive never paid for any balancing, luckly have access to truck tire balancer.
We have used "Equal" brand tire balancing in some 225/70R19.5s steers we changed in the field, seemed to work ok.