Question regarding what lube for transmission?.....

[PoW]

I seem to remember a recommendation to use John Deere 'Corn Head Grease' in the winch.

Is that just another in-house term of an ISO- based lube?

Dennis

[MSeriesRebuild]

I seem to remember a recommendation to use John Deere 'Corn Head Grease' in the winch.

Is that just another in-house term of an ISO- based lube?

Dennis

NO it is not. Unless you have a JD corn head on your M37, you shouldn't be using it.

Worm gear lube is a specific oil for worm type gear boxes, like the Braden winch, manual type steering gear boxes, etc. The myth that it is fine to use corn head grease was started by those who apparently are not smart enough to rebuild a winch so the oil doesn't pour out of it. It is for a totally different and specific application. It is not a liquid lube. The oil in the LU4 winch transfers from 1 housing to the other via the drum shaft bushings. Using grease instead of oil prevents that free flow from taking place. The result is that certain areas within the winch are starved of lubrication. Put corn head grease in a winch and work it frequently, in a relatively short time you will have a mess that includes high $$$ repairs on your hands.

You need to do your homework to become educated about the terminology used in oil and grease specifications. Assuming that something means something that it isn't even relative too will get you in trouble.

[PoW]

Thanks, Charles.

Never having used anything but gear lube in my winches, I really wanted to hear a second opinion.

Today's synthetic oils are really a godsend, at least by my teardown checks. Things that use to wear look new after a long time.

DG

[MSeriesRebuild]

Thanks, Charles.

Never having used anything but gear lube in my winches, I really wanted to hear a second opinion.

Today's synthetic oils are really a godsend, at least by my teardown checks. Things that use to wear look new after a long time.

DG

Very true; lubricant technology is like electronics, changing by the hour. As with everything, there is always a cheap alternative for the best quality products. Like the folks at one local auto parts store said, quality no longer drives sales like it once did, price is the main driver these days, therefore many outlets don't even have the better product lines on the shelf; instead it is geared to the customer looking for what they can find at bargain basement prices. The better lines are special order items now at many stores. The bottom line is the same as it has always been; YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. If you rebuild your components to the best they can be; then use the best lubricant technology that is out there; you will get an outstanding result with amazing longevity. On the other hand if you look for ways to cut corners when rebuilding, then install lubricants from the shelves of Wal-Mart; let's just say your end result may not fit into the amazing category.

Cheap price and quality lubricants just won't fit into the same sentence.

[PoW]

Yep, easily went through $50 to put full synthetic lube in my Ford 1-ton rear axle.

Running Mystic blend in our vintage Mercedes Diesels has proven to be a good choice. Where one was advised to check timing chain stretch at 150K mile intervals not to exceed 6 degrees, the chains have shown NO stretch at twice that mileage.

Modern synthetic motor oil with high zinc and phosphorous for flat tappet engines (like in your G-741's) is available, I get mine from Hemmings. Much easier than using additives, but keep it out of anything with a catalytic perverter exhaust system.

PoW

[MSeriesRebuild]

Yep, easily went through $50 to put full synthetic lube in my Ford 1-ton rear axle.

Running Mystic blend in our vintage Mercedes Diesels has proven to be a good choice. Where one was advised to check timing chain stretch at 150K mile intervals not to exceed 6 degrees, the chains have shown NO stretch at twice that mileage.

Modern synthetic motor oil with high zinc and phosphorous for flat tappet engines (like in your G-741's) is available, I get mine from Hemmings. Much easier than using additives, but keep it out of anything with a catalytic perverter exhaust system.

PoW

A real difference in flat tappet engines, we stock Amsoil formulated with high zinc in our lube oil storage building for our customers who run original engines and demand the best.

[Elwood]

I seem to remember a recommendation to use John Deere 'Corn Head Grease' in the winch.

Is that just another in-house term of an ISO- based lube?

Dennis

NO it is not. Unless you have a JD corn head on your M37, you shouldn't be using it.

Worm gear lube is a specific oil for worm type gear boxes, like the Braden winch, manual type steering gear boxes, etc. The myth that it is fine to use corn head grease was started by those who apparently are not smart enough to rebuild a winch so the oil doesn't pour out of it. It is for a totally different and specific application. It is not a liquid lube. The oil in the LU4 winch transfers from 1 housing to the other via the drum shaft bushings. Using grease instead of oil prevents that free flow from taking place. The result is that certain areas within the winch are starved of lubrication. Put corn head grease in a winch and work it frequently, in a relatively short time you will have a mess that includes high $$$ repairs on your hands.

You need to do your homework to become educated about the terminology used in oil and grease specifications. Assuming that something means something that it isn't even relative too will get you in trouble.

I was recently reading through the April 2014 issue of Military Vehicles magazine, and noticed that the author of the article entitled "Some Helpful Shop Tips" (p. 62) is recommending John Deere corn head grease for "leaky gearboxes." He goes on to write that he "know[s] of many people who are successfully using it in winch gearboxes, steering gearboxes, differentials and more."

[MSeriesRebuild]

I seem to remember a recommendation to use John Deere 'Corn Head Grease' in the winch.

Is that just another in-house term of an ISO- based lube?

Dennis

NO it is not. Unless you have a JD corn head on your M37, you shouldn't be using it.

Worm gear lube is a specific oil for worm type gear boxes, like the Braden winch, manual type steering gear boxes, etc. The myth that it is fine to use corn head grease was started by those who apparently are not smart enough to rebuild a winch so the oil doesn't pour out of it. It is for a totally different and specific application. It is not a liquid lube. The oil in the LU4 winch transfers from 1 housing to the other via the drum shaft bushings. Using grease instead of oil prevents that free flow from taking place. The result is that certain areas within the winch are starved of lubrication. Put corn head grease in a winch and work it frequently, in a relatively short time you will have a mess that includes high $$$ repairs on your hands.

You need to do your homework to become educated about the terminology used in oil and grease specifications. Assuming that something means something that it isn't even relative too will get you in trouble.

I was recently reading through the April 2014 issue of Military Vehicles magazine, and noticed that the author of the article entitled "Some Helpful Shop Tips" (p. 62) is recommending John Deere corn head grease for "leaky gearboxes." He goes on to write that he "know[s] of many people who are successfully using it in winch gearboxes, steering gearboxes, differentials and more."

You need to tell the whole story!

I will give the author of the article this, he does highlight that he suggest its use (corn head grease) only until that leaky gearbox can be properly repaired; and that it does not perform well and is not recommended in cooler climates or for use in winter.

I'll still stick to my original recommendation, unless you have a corn head on your truck, this lubricant should not be used. No gear box on your truck is of a design that it can be properly lubed by any type of grease. They are designed to use liquid lubricating oil. If you chose to use anything other than the proper type of lubricant, you may slow the dripping from a leaky box, there is also a really good chance you will be starving high $$$ critical components of proper lubrication. The bottom line question still remains; is it cheaper to do the necessary repairs so the right oil will stay in the unit, or use a lubricant that doesn't do its job well and maybe destroy the component? I have not seen a destroyed gear box yet that was cheap to rebuild; so certainly think long and hard before pumping grease where oil is the preferred lube.

[w30bob]

Wow, what a great thread! Charles, thanks for all the good info. This one should be made into a "stinky"....errr........I mean "sticky" for everyone to be able to reference. I just went thru this whole post and summarized for my notebook. Here's what I have........please let me know if I got anything wrong;
And I've got one question: Someone mentioned "flushing" a tranny or xfer case. What is the best thing to use to flush? I've always used diesel fuel, but what's the right answer?

Lubes Summary:

Engine Oil (post 1000 mile break-in): Amsoil Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil, 10W-30. This is especially designed for older engines with flat tappets.

Transmission and Transfer Case: Amsoil SAE 50 Long life synthetic transmission oil.

Axles: Amsoil Long life synthetic Gear Lube, 75W-90

Winch: Worm gear lube that meets the ISO 460 spec for moderate temps, both cold and hot. If you are in an area where temps are warmer than average in the US, you may want to consider ISO 680 which is a heavier grade. DO NOT USE JOHN DEERE CORN HEAD GREASE

Steering Box: ISO 460 worm gear lube (same as above)


thanks,
bob

[just me]

Without reading the whole oil thread (akin to answering a womans 'does this make me look fat?' question.) Sure sounds like someone sells amsoil for income supplementation. Just be sure to NEVER use Harley Davidson® Oil in your truck! That stuff is made from magical mystery goo.

[Elwood]

Without reading the whole oil thread (akin to answering a womans 'does this make me look fat?' question.) Sure sounds like someone sells amsoil for income supplementation. Just be sure to NEVER use Harley Davidson® Oil in your truck! That stuff is made from magical mystery goo.

There's nothing especially magical about H-D oil, other than the price. However, the additives in H-D oils make it closer to a diesel engine lubricant than a water-cooled gasoline engine lubricant, so I agree, don't use it in your M37 unless you've converted it to an air cooled engine.

As to Amsoil, no one here is forcing (or has even pushed to sell) anyone to buy anything. Seems to me that the "someone" you're referring to has provided a lot of useful advice, and never charged you or anyone else here a dime for it.

Besides, if you want to run Amsoil products in your truck, you might as well sign up on their annual discount program and buy it direct from Amsoil.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Without reading the whole oil thread (akin to answering a womans 'does this make me look fat?' question.) Sure sounds like someone sells amsoil for income supplementation. Just be sure to NEVER use Harley Davidson® Oil in your truck! That stuff is made from magical mystery goo.

There's nothing especially magical about H-D oil, other than the price. However, the additives in H-D oils make it closer to a diesel engine lubricant than a water-cooled gasoline engine lubricant, so I agree, don't use it in your M37 unless you've converted it to an air cooled engine.

As to Amsoil, no one here is forcing (or has even pushed to sell) anyone to buy anything. Seems to me that the "someone" you're referring to has provided a lot of useful advice, and never charged you or anyone else here a dime for it.

Besides, if you want to run Amsoil products in your truck, you might as well sign up on their annual discount program and buy it direct from Amsoil.

JUST ME,
Amsoil has a program called "Preferred Customer". The info is posted on their site; cost is minimal to get on the program, by doing so you can purchase any of their products at dealer cost wholesale rates. Now I can only assume I'm the one made reference to for "pushing their products". I can assure you that it won't matter to me one way or the other whether you ever purchase anything with an Amsoil label on it, so you can feel better now. In fact SURPRISE, we are not a dealer, and we actually use the preferred customer program, you can't beat it for great quality products. I don't sell Amsoil or any other lubricant line as a retailer. We use it in the trucks we build, reason it is a great quality product line, that makes our rebuilt components run better for longer, is always shipped promptly when I call in an order, etc. Purchasing at wholesale cost enables one to use a high end lubricant line that cost less than much lower quality products purchased over the counter. A win-win for us; for example, if someone sends us a transmission for rebuild service; when completed, it is shipped back to the client filled to the correct level with Amsoil 50 weight trans oil. We purchase a lot of products in 5-gallon containers and some in 55-gallon drums, depending on the need. I keep a 55-gallon drum of 5w30 Amsoil signature synthetic engine oil along with Amsoil premium filters for our employees to run in their personal vehicles; it is a benefit we give to our employees so they can enjoy the benefit of extended oil change service intervals. You can also check out these extended service interval details on the Amsoil site. Now that you are feeling better because you know we aren't making big bucks from pushing Amsoil products; take the time to go to http://www.amsoil.com and educate yourself about how you too can start enjoying the benefits of some really high end, quality lubricants.

[1954m37]

We always use 30 or 40 wt. in the trans and tran. case, 80-90 is for the rear ends.

[John_C]

Wow, I just read this entire thread and am now totally confused. If my M37 ever hits the road it will just be driven locally. Is there a decent transmission oil I can get at AutoZone that will work well? I'm sure anything will be better than the 20-year old stuff that's in there now.
Thanks,
John, Grand Bay, Alabama

[Kaegi]

the books say run GL4 gear oil in winch, trans, tcase, diffs. GL5 works but is for limited slip diffs with clutches. GL4 I have noticed stays a bit thicker when hot than the GL5 does.