Felpro hump head gasket

[ZGjethro]

Hi guys, I have a few questions. I searched, but did not find answers to them. I finally pulled the head on my truck today, and I did not see any areas of the gasket blown. I am kind of disappointed in that. The truck had some buttery emulsification on the underside of the oil filler cap, and I was really hoping it was the head gasket. I hope the block does not have issues. I have a new Felpro gasket set, but the head gasket got slightly bent and the copper separated from the other material a little bit. Is this a problem? There are no creases in the copper.

Will the "hump" model work, or should I get a flat sided gasket?

I was surprised the Felpro gasket was copper on one side only. Are the two sided copper gaskets any better/worse?

Are there any links here to any threads on the proper steps for head gasket replacement? My only experience with head gasket replacement is with two stroke dirtbikes, but it seems pretty similar.

Any good sites to buy new head bolts? Do they come as a full set, with special bolts for the various brackets?

Thanks.

John

[RMS]

hi john

I have replaced many HGs and have never seen damage or missing composite. a HG leak can some times be seen on the HG in the form of discoloration (oxides/ greening) of the copper.

parts guys are ruff and I dont accept any HGs if the box has any marks or creases. with that being said I have had to use beat up HGs with separated copper and small creases with out any issues.

head bolts should be inspected and any wasted / stretched bolts should be replaced. head bolts can be got from the normal suspects for $3 to $12 each depending on the vender.

the block should be checked with a strait edge. send the head out to be planed. here is a link with a milling chart for the head http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5180

don't forget to re torque the head @ 500 and 1000. Edgy recommends copper spray tack on the HG

[longshot2171]

Before you start taking the engine apart, make sure that the crankcase vent is functioning correctly. When I first bought my truck, I found similar milky goo in the oil fill tube and under the cap after it was running for a while. After disconnecting the valve, there didn't seem to be any vacuum in the line. I ended up having to remove the fitting from the rear of the engine, cleaning every part of the tube and crankcase valve. It then took most of a can of gumout and a long screwdriver to clean out the manifold passage.
After you warm the truck up, remove the oil fill cap. There should be a slight vacuum present (almost enough to hold a sheet of paper).

[ZGjethro]

RMS, thanks for the good info. I am shopping for new bolts all the way around since there seems like there is more rust than I am comfortable with on them. I am going to have the head milled, but I do not know how much. I am at high elevation (8000') and would probably have as much removed as is possible. I don't know the status of the head though as far a previous millings go. Do you have any knowledge about the straight vs hump gasket?

Longshot. thanks for the hope. I will definitely try all the things you mentioned. If the block is cracked, I will probably drive it into the ground.

[T. Highway]

ZGjethro,

The buttery residue is just moisture that hasn't been evaporated from the crankcase and could be from a couple of different things. If you only run the engine for short periods of time you will never build up enough heat to burn this off through the crankcase vents. I would also check your crankcase valve for proper operation. I would also check that your gasket on the oil filler tube cover is in good working order. I would check that the elbow and vent tube from the oil filler tube to the carb elbow is not plugged with sludge.

I would not use a head gasket that had any form of defect. I only like to do the job once.
Head gasket PN: NAPA 1059C, Victor 1059C, Felpro 7564C
Head gasket with copper on two sides PN: Best Gasket 523C
I always spray both sides of the gasket with Copper Coat made by Permatex before installing. Remember to seal all of your head bolts with a decent thread sealant also or you will have water leaks.

If you are going to shave the head you will have to do your homework and measure exactly what you have now or risk valve clearance issues that will bend the valves.

I checked all my clearances during the rebuild and shaved off .080" from a head that had been machined at least once prior. DO NOT ASSUME THAT MY NUMBERS WILL WORK FOR YOU ON YOUR ENGINE.

Bert

Edited the Best gasket number to reflect the correct PN.

[ZGjethro]

ZGjethro,

The buttery residue is just moisture that hasn't been evaporated from the crankcase and could be from a couple of different things. If you only run the engine for short periods of time you will never build up enough heat to burn this off through the crankcase vents. I would also check your crankcase valve for proper operation. I would also check that your gasket on the oil filler tube cover is in good working order. I would check that the elbow and vent tube from the oil filler tube to the carb elbow is not plugged with sludge.

I would not use a head gasket that had any form of defect. I only like to do the job once.
Head gasket PN: NAPA 1059C, Victor 1059C, Felpro 7564C
Head gasket with copper on two sides PN: Best Gasket 510C
I always spray both sides of the gasket with Copper Coat made by Permatex before installing. Remember to seal all of your head bolts with a decent thread sealant also or you will have water leaks.

If you are going to shave the head you will have to do your homework and measure exactly what you have now or risk valve clearance issues that will bend the valves.

I checked all my clearances during the rebuild and shaved off .080" from a head that had been machined at least once prior. DO NOT ASSUME THAT MY NUMBERS WILL WORK FOR YOU ON YOUR ENGINE.

Bert

Thanks for the head gasket numbers. I am with you, I would like to do it once. I think I will order the Best Gasket version. I noticed from a quick google search that it has the hump. Is that an issue. I will also check the PCV valve and the oil filler vent tube.

How do I measure for shaving the head? I can get a maximum valve above block measurement. I could also measure the valve recesses in the head. How much clearance should I aim for, and how do you account for head gasket thickness before torquing the headbolts? Will the gasket compress noticibly?

[Elwood]

ZGjethro,

<snip>

Head gasket with copper on two sides PN: Best Gasket 510C

<snip>

Bert

I've been researching gasket sets, and I'm wondering if the 510C is really the correct gasket for the Dodge 230 in the U. S. M37?

The Best Gasket website (http://www.bestgasket.com) lists this information under the 510 set:

ENGINE REBUILDING SET
RS510C
Chrysler 6 218-241-251-265 1937-54
US and Canadian Models



And this information under the 523 set:

Best Gasket
ENGINE REBUILDING SET
RS523C
Dodge/Ply 6 201-218-230 1934-59 (passenger)
Dodge Truck 218-230 1934-60



Based on their application info, it looks like the 523 set (with the included 523C head gasket) is the correct one for the Dodge 230?

[ZGjethro]

Thanks. The vendor I bought my gasket from noticed that the number I gave them was wrong and notified me.

[T. Highway]

Good catch, I apologize for the typo. I guess my different projects blended together in my mind. It sucks getting older.

Bert

[Kaegi]

you can use the hump gasket on a non hump engine. I always soak mine in copper spaya gasket. the correct head bolts are available at vintage power wagons and midwest military

[ZGjethro]

Thanks Kaegi. I sprayed a couple of coats of Copper Spray-a-gasket on both sides and got all new bolts from Midwest military. The truck is running great. I am going to mess with the timing a bit just to see what a difference it will make. I am at 8000' and advanced to 10deg BTDC.

I never saw any flaws in the old head gasket to account for moisture in the crank case. Next I want to replace my PCV valve. How much do those go for?

[Kaegi]

the great thing about the PCV valve is its maintainable. it comes apart for cleaning, re intsall and your good. they were not as wasteful back then with disposable parts. cleanable fuel filters, air cleaners, and PCV valves.

[ZGjethro]

Cool. I will pull it and see what it takes to take it apart. What is the mechanism that closes/opens it.. Ball and spring, or some other type?

If one is not concerned about a sealed system for fording, could you just not fully insert your dipstick or not close the oil filler as a temporary solution? Longshot mentioned that there should be a slight vacuum at the oil filler cap. If one has positive crankcase pressure, which i'd guess is the common state, how could you have vacuum at the filler?

[Kaegi]

the pcv system is supplied the oil fill tube which draws fresh air from the carburetor aircleaner. the PCV valve is basically a controlled vacumm leak that sucks fumes out of crankcase. so its not really sealed but it is water proof because it takes air in from aircleaner.

[ZGjethro]

I forgot about the line to the oil filler when I was typing last night. Thanks for the reminder.