Home Title help.
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matttupp84
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- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:52 pm
Title help.
Hey guys. So here's the deal. I bought my m37 about 8 months ago from a "friend". I've been working on restoring it since then. Well when I bought it he couldn't find the title. So he was going to get it to me later. Well now he can't find it at all. And he tried to apply for lost title but they wouldn't do it for him. So this is a long shot. But does anyone perhaps have a title for an m37 they would care to sell to me? They don't inspect old cars here. So they would never know if the numbers didn't match. Or if someone has the dash badges and a title to match that would be cool. I know it's crazy and I should have never bought it until I got the title. But he was a friend so I trusted him. I only paid $700 for the truck. So it's not a huge deal. But I don't want to keep working on it if I can't title it and register it. I hate to part it out but I might have to I guess. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
Re: Title help.
Matt,
I understand your situation.....The M I bought a few months back originally didn't have a title. It was sold from the Government to a farmer who never titled it. I was buying the M from his grandson. I live in Maryland and getting something that old titled would have been impossible. Heck, just talking to someone from the Motor Vehicle Agency who knows what they're talking about is impossible........never mind trying to get a 1952 military truck titled. So I made the grandson a deal. He lived in Virginia, where it's much easier to title something like that...........so we negotiated the price of the truck and then I offered him $600 to get the title. He wanted to see the truck restored and cared for, and he needed money for another project he was working on..........so he did all the legwork and paperwork to get it titled. And when all was said and done it cost him at least $600 to get the title.
Now in your case that's more money than you want to spend, but if your M was previously titled there is no reason your Motor Vehicle Agency can't provide a dublicate title. Even in Louisiana.
) So if it were me I'd call then and request a title search based on the serial number stamped into your frame (driver's side front behind the two drag links). Then have them issue you a replacement title.
What you're asking to do sounds harmless enough, but is very illegal. Not to mention that there are probably way more M37s out there than there are titles to begin with. I'm not saying someone won't come thru with a title from another vehicle for you, but you better be careful who you're dealing with.....the fines for doing what you plan to do are ridiculous compared to what you paid for your. I read about a well known case where a guy bought a VIN for a fake musclecar and got caught. He ended up paying $250,000 in fines. Like OUCH!!
Tread lightly dude.
regards,
bob
I understand your situation.....The M I bought a few months back originally didn't have a title. It was sold from the Government to a farmer who never titled it. I was buying the M from his grandson. I live in Maryland and getting something that old titled would have been impossible. Heck, just talking to someone from the Motor Vehicle Agency who knows what they're talking about is impossible........never mind trying to get a 1952 military truck titled. So I made the grandson a deal. He lived in Virginia, where it's much easier to title something like that...........so we negotiated the price of the truck and then I offered him $600 to get the title. He wanted to see the truck restored and cared for, and he needed money for another project he was working on..........so he did all the legwork and paperwork to get it titled. And when all was said and done it cost him at least $600 to get the title.
Now in your case that's more money than you want to spend, but if your M was previously titled there is no reason your Motor Vehicle Agency can't provide a dublicate title. Even in Louisiana.
) So if it were me I'd call then and request a title search based on the serial number stamped into your frame (driver's side front behind the two drag links). Then have them issue you a replacement title. What you're asking to do sounds harmless enough, but is very illegal. Not to mention that there are probably way more M37s out there than there are titles to begin with. I'm not saying someone won't come thru with a title from another vehicle for you, but you better be careful who you're dealing with.....the fines for doing what you plan to do are ridiculous compared to what you paid for your. I read about a well known case where a guy bought a VIN for a fake musclecar and got caught. He ended up paying $250,000 in fines. Like OUCH!!
Tread lightly dude.
regards,
bob
Re: Title help.
Did you ask DMV if they need a title? In CT, they didn't want nor would they accept a title. They only wanted a bill of sale.
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matttupp84
- PVT
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:52 pm
Re: Title help.
Bob, i understand what you are referring to is illegal. I'm not asking anyone to do anything illegal. And the case you are referring to is when someone sold a VIN number from a highly collectible car to someone so they could put it on a car that was not as collectible so that they could sell it for more money. I'm far from trying to do that. I've owned many many old cars. And in the old car world, people take 2 or more vehicles all the time to make one good one. They are called a "non matching numbers car". people take bodies, engines, frames, etc from different vehicles of the same kind and make one good one. Thats all i'm trying to do. I have no problem buying a complete truck with a title that is junk and make one good truck out of both. I just dont need a complete truck nor can i find one around here. I figured if i found one out of state, i could buy the "entire" truck and just let them keep whatever they wanted off of it. I'm not asking anyone to do anything illegal, i dont want to get anyone in trouble anymore than i want to get in trouble myself. now with that being said.
Yes, in lousiana you have to have a title and bill of sale to register anything. The DMV here is filled with complete idiots. If they cant punch it in on there computer and have it come up then they are done with trying. This is no lie. I've gone 3 times and each time they cant find anything because they dont know the VIN. I give them the serial number but they say that is not the VIN. They dont understand that older vehicles have serial numbers and not VIN numbers. So they argue with me everytime that theres nothing they can do because its not enough numbers for them to search in there commputer. It blows my mind. I called the state DMV headguarters, they said the same thing. I said well how can i get a title, they said i can apply for lost title, so i said ok lets do that then. And there response of course, we need a VIN number. Its like banging my head against a wall.
I did get a title for a non titled old car once. But i bought it out of state. They have a form you can fill out for antique cars to get a title on a vehicle that was purchased out of state with no title. So i've thought about selling to a friend out of state then buying it back from him with an out of state bill of sale. That might work. But would be a huge pain. Again i'm not asking anyone to do anything illegal or get anyone into trouble.
Yes, in lousiana you have to have a title and bill of sale to register anything. The DMV here is filled with complete idiots. If they cant punch it in on there computer and have it come up then they are done with trying. This is no lie. I've gone 3 times and each time they cant find anything because they dont know the VIN. I give them the serial number but they say that is not the VIN. They dont understand that older vehicles have serial numbers and not VIN numbers. So they argue with me everytime that theres nothing they can do because its not enough numbers for them to search in there commputer. It blows my mind. I called the state DMV headguarters, they said the same thing. I said well how can i get a title, they said i can apply for lost title, so i said ok lets do that then. And there response of course, we need a VIN number. Its like banging my head against a wall.
I did get a title for a non titled old car once. But i bought it out of state. They have a form you can fill out for antique cars to get a title on a vehicle that was purchased out of state with no title. So i've thought about selling to a friend out of state then buying it back from him with an out of state bill of sale. That might work. But would be a huge pain. Again i'm not asking anyone to do anything illegal or get anyone into trouble.
Re: Title help.
No matter how you rationalize it with past experiences, stories and second hand "knowledge" of how the DMV works and what is needed to obtain a title, using a title issued to another truck to obtain a good one for yours is fraud and anyone selling that title is conspiring to commit fraud.
Need proof? Go to the DMV and ask if what you are planning is OK with them.
Need proof? Go to the DMV and ask if what you are planning is OK with them.
Carter
Life Member:
Delta, Peach Bottom Fish & Game Assn.
Life Member:
Delta, Peach Bottom Fish & Game Assn.
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matttupp84
- PVT
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:52 pm
Re: Title help.
Carter you are more pissy than my wife. Lol. I'm not trying to rationalize anything. What's wrong with taking multiple parts from different trucks and making one good one? What if I bought a truck that was junk with a good frame and title and took my entire truck an put it on that frame? People do old cars like that all the time. Whats the diffence? The only "original" part on my truck is the frame and cab. I bought a bed from another truck. Front bumper from another. Doors from another. Motor from another. Etc etc. So how is it illegal to buy a junker with a title and make 2 trucks one? It's not like a stole the truck and I'm trying to grind off the vin. I legally bought it. And if I life legally buy another one what's the harm?
Re: Title help.
Matt - the frame of the truck has the VIN number. This is the important part.
EVERY state has a process to replace title/vehicle ownership documents on any legal motorized vehicle; Louisiana would be no different.
In NC, we use a process called 'Title by Bond' - info here from my buddy Cabell Garbee's website > http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/titlebybond.htm
From Louisiana:
...if you ever lose or damage your title, you can request a duplicate from the Louisiana Office of Motor Vehicles (OMV).
The following parties are allowed to request a duplicate title:
The last registered owner of the vehicle.
A person granted power of attorney for the last registered owner.
A curator for the last registered owner if he or she is determined to be interdicted and thus incapable of handling the transaction.
A bankruptcy trustee.
The recorded lienholder for the vehicle.
A representative for a corporation that has a legitimate interest in the vehicle.
To request a duplicate title, bring a completed Vehicle Application to your nearest OMV office. If you wish, you may change the following fields on your new title:
Customer address
Driver's license number
Employer identification number (EIN)
Secondary address
Lienholder status
If there is an open lien on the vehicle, a notarized Affidavit of Non-Possession of Title by Lienholder must be completed by the lienholder. In this case, the duplicate title will be mailed to the lienholder after processing. The OMV charges $18.50 to issue a duplicate title, plus an additional $8 handling fee.
More:
Replacing Titles in Louisiana
When the ownership of a vehicle changes hands, a title transfer must take place. You can replace a lost title, or a title that has been damaged or destroyed, by submitting the following to your local Office of Motor Vehicles (OMV):
Completed DPSMV1799 vehicle application form. The Duplicate Title Affidavit section must be signed by a notary.
Notarized Affidavit of Non-Possession of Title by Lienholder, in the case of a lien removal.
$18.50 title fee, plus an $8 handling fee at most locations.
A bill of sale is not required for a duplicate car title; however it is required for the completion of a title transfer. You can apply for a duplicate title by visiting your local OMV branch, or by mailing all documents and fees to the following address:
Louisiana OMV
P.O. Box 64866
Baton Rouge, LA 70896
(225) 925-6146
If you are planning to drive the vehicle, you must register the vehicle in your name. Vehicle registration must be completed in person at an OMV branch.
Don't try to use a title service like ITS, or Broadway; they don't do MV's... just do the correct process for your state, keep it LEGAL, and it all will be fine.
'Tanner'
EVERY state has a process to replace title/vehicle ownership documents on any legal motorized vehicle; Louisiana would be no different.
In NC, we use a process called 'Title by Bond' - info here from my buddy Cabell Garbee's website > http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/titlebybond.htm
From Louisiana:
...if you ever lose or damage your title, you can request a duplicate from the Louisiana Office of Motor Vehicles (OMV).
The following parties are allowed to request a duplicate title:
The last registered owner of the vehicle.
A person granted power of attorney for the last registered owner.
A curator for the last registered owner if he or she is determined to be interdicted and thus incapable of handling the transaction.
A bankruptcy trustee.
The recorded lienholder for the vehicle.
A representative for a corporation that has a legitimate interest in the vehicle.
To request a duplicate title, bring a completed Vehicle Application to your nearest OMV office. If you wish, you may change the following fields on your new title:
Customer address
Driver's license number
Employer identification number (EIN)
Secondary address
Lienholder status
If there is an open lien on the vehicle, a notarized Affidavit of Non-Possession of Title by Lienholder must be completed by the lienholder. In this case, the duplicate title will be mailed to the lienholder after processing. The OMV charges $18.50 to issue a duplicate title, plus an additional $8 handling fee.
More:
Replacing Titles in Louisiana
When the ownership of a vehicle changes hands, a title transfer must take place. You can replace a lost title, or a title that has been damaged or destroyed, by submitting the following to your local Office of Motor Vehicles (OMV):
Completed DPSMV1799 vehicle application form. The Duplicate Title Affidavit section must be signed by a notary.
Notarized Affidavit of Non-Possession of Title by Lienholder, in the case of a lien removal.
$18.50 title fee, plus an $8 handling fee at most locations.
A bill of sale is not required for a duplicate car title; however it is required for the completion of a title transfer. You can apply for a duplicate title by visiting your local OMV branch, or by mailing all documents and fees to the following address:
Louisiana OMV
P.O. Box 64866
Baton Rouge, LA 70896
(225) 925-6146
If you are planning to drive the vehicle, you must register the vehicle in your name. Vehicle registration must be completed in person at an OMV branch.
Don't try to use a title service like ITS, or Broadway; they don't do MV's... just do the correct process for your state, keep it LEGAL, and it all will be fine.
'Tanner'
Re: Title help.
I believe that what is perfectly legal in all states is if you take the frame that has the same stamped number in it that you have a title for and build the truck from that. It doesn't matter where you get parts from as long as the frame stamp and title match. The data plates on the glove box are really not "official ID plates" as far as civilian title and registrations are concerned. Therefor you can always switch the military plates to match the frame stamping AND title. That way if anyone examines the military plates that doesn't know what they are doing you will have less of a hassle.
My problem was that when the fire department got a title for my truck they didn't know what they were doing and wrote down the Ordance part number instead of the serial number. NC said that title was for something else then but didn't know what - groan. After 3 years of attempts I got it all sorted out and finally have a NC title. However the title has a restriction on it that does not allow me to get a registration until I have it roadworthy, insured and inspected (one time event only). Since this is my 20 year project and I am only 7 years into it, I will get inspected once it is done then as part of the registration they issue a new title saying it was inspected and never has to be inspected in NC again. If I sell it before it is roadworthy and inspected then the current title is still considered valid but the new owner can't register it in NC until it gets inspected. I don't know what other states will require before issuing a title. If this sounds like it is a pain you are right. Just be patient and persistent with your DMV and don't take no for an answer. Keep working up the buaeracratic food chain.
My problem was that when the fire department got a title for my truck they didn't know what they were doing and wrote down the Ordance part number instead of the serial number. NC said that title was for something else then but didn't know what - groan. After 3 years of attempts I got it all sorted out and finally have a NC title. However the title has a restriction on it that does not allow me to get a registration until I have it roadworthy, insured and inspected (one time event only). Since this is my 20 year project and I am only 7 years into it, I will get inspected once it is done then as part of the registration they issue a new title saying it was inspected and never has to be inspected in NC again. If I sell it before it is roadworthy and inspected then the current title is still considered valid but the new owner can't register it in NC until it gets inspected. I don't know what other states will require before issuing a title. If this sounds like it is a pain you are right. Just be patient and persistent with your DMV and don't take no for an answer. Keep working up the buaeracratic food chain.
All in Air Force blue and black trim
1962 M37B1 rectangular window hardtop, converted to Hercules 4 cyl diesel-intercooled & turbo charged, 12V, disc brakes
1962 M116A1 Generator trailer
1962 M116A1 Pioneer tool trailer
1964 M101A1 3/4 ton trailer
1962 M37B1 rectangular window hardtop, converted to Hercules 4 cyl diesel-intercooled & turbo charged, 12V, disc brakes
1962 M116A1 Generator trailer
1962 M116A1 Pioneer tool trailer
1964 M101A1 3/4 ton trailer
Re: Title help.
Matt, you didn't ask to buy a truck or a frame and title, just a title which led me to believe that you were planning to try and put one over on the DMV.matttupp84 wrote:So this is a long shot. But does anyone perhaps have a title for an m37 they would care to sell to me?
When you fail to get the answer you want do you always resort to name calling?
Carter
Life Member:
Delta, Peach Bottom Fish & Game Assn.
Life Member:
Delta, Peach Bottom Fish & Game Assn.
Re: Title help.
Who owned the truck prior to your belated 'friend'?matttupp84 wrote:Hey guys. So here's the deal. I bought my m37 about 8 months ago from a "friend". I've been working on restoring it since then. Well when I bought it he couldn't find the title. So he was going to get it to me later. Well now he can't find it at all. And he tried to apply for lost title but they wouldn't do it for him. So this is a long shot. But does anyone perhaps have a title for an m37 they would care to sell to me? They don't inspect old cars here. So they would never know if the numbers didn't match. Or if someone has the dash badges and a title to match that would be cool. I know it's crazy and I should have never bought it until I got the title. But he was a friend so I trusted him. I only paid $700 for the truck. So it's not a huge deal. But I don't want to keep working on it if I can't title it and register it. I hate to part it out but I might have to I guess. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
Do you have any info on the original owner of said truck?
Does chassis number of truck show up in LA DMV computer system?
Can you file for title by bonding process?
Can you file a Mechanics Lien on the truck?
Will Batman & Robin escape the evil clutches of the Riddler & his dastardly trap?
Point is, there are legitimate methods available to get truck registered in your name.
'Tanner'
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matttupp84
- PVT
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:52 pm
Re: Title help.
Tanner, I've exhausted all of the options at the DMV thus far. The problem the DMV is giving me is that they don't understand there is a serial number instead of a VIN. They will not let me apply for lost title since it wasn't previously titled in my name. And nothing comes up in there system for it because it's a serial number they say. Even though I have a bill of sale they will not proceed with a duplicate title or a lost title. The guy I bought it from has owned it for 20 plus years. The man he bought from passed away quite some time ago. And apparently the man I bought it from never transferred the title to his name. So if anyone can apply for lost or duplicate title it would have had to been the man that passed away. Soooo I guess that's not an option. Lol. I even have the old license plate that was on it. DMV tried to search it. But no luck. who knows if it even belonged on that truck though. There are companies like broadway title that can get titles for old vehicles. But it's kind of pricey. I hate to just part it out. But I might end up doing that. It's a winch truck. So I could probably sell the winch and almost be clear of what I have in it. I just hate parting out things. I was really hoping to get it restored. But maybe I can just part it out and find another one to restore. With a title this time.
Re: Title help.
If your truck is in real good shape you can always look for a cheap parts truck that has a title. Problem solved.
Re: Title help.
Matt - I would not use Broadway or ITS... many states will NOT accept titles washed through Alabama, as in the case of Broadway's method of business. Broadway got the slap-down for this already...
They now apparently use another title service and act as a middleman.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=582672
For ITS, they have a less than sterling reputation... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeQfz7GeoEQ
Plenty of info on avoiding using the title services...
Recommendation: Get in touch with your local fellow MV owners & see if someone has an M37 with title that shows frame numbers that match paperwork. Then demonstrate to DMV that
this is how military vehicles with legit titles in other states have been VIN'd; by the stamped Chassis number. You'll need to do the grunt work, as the androids at DMV/BMV offices only
know what the computer tells them - nothing more.
Free-thinking is a lost art there...
'Tanner'
They now apparently use another title service and act as a middleman.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=582672
For ITS, they have a less than sterling reputation... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeQfz7GeoEQ
Plenty of info on avoiding using the title services...
Recommendation: Get in touch with your local fellow MV owners & see if someone has an M37 with title that shows frame numbers that match paperwork. Then demonstrate to DMV that
this is how military vehicles with legit titles in other states have been VIN'd; by the stamped Chassis number. You'll need to do the grunt work, as the androids at DMV/BMV offices only
know what the computer tells them - nothing more.
Free-thinking is a lost art there...
'Tanner'