Complete conversion to 12 volt Question

[ausb1]

After a lot of thought on engine conversions ,gas ,diesel etc ,too much trouble expense ,plus the seemingly problematic 24 volt sytem, generator ,solid state regulator[problem getting parts for it where iam ] .I have come to the conclusion to keep the side valve engins and rebuild it ,and completely replace the electrical system ,guages ,starter, with alternator etc .Can the original starter be modified to run on 12 volt or do i need another starter ? which is my main question ,plus mods to make the 230 run more efficently breathe better ? im not after mega hp just making it run smoother better etc
Thankyou for any advice

[Lifer]

I'm glad you said "seemingly" problematic 24-volt system! If all the components are in good shape, it is no more "problematic" than any other electrical system,. Good wires, good connections, good lights, good switches, etc. make any system good...especially the wires!

With 24 volts, your components only draw half the amps that would be required with a 12-volt system and one fourth of what a 6-volt system would require, so components should last longer with the higher voltages. All things being equal, the only "problematic" thing about a 24-volt system is getting a jump-start if your batteries are dead.

Your starter can be rewound to operate on 12 volts, but there are plenty of 12-volt starters available as replacements if you want to go that route.

You mention that you're not looking for mega horsepower, but just want to make it breathe better and run smoother. I'm sure that there are ways to improve engine breathing, but they would require some serious re-engineering and machine work (about which I know nothing). As far as making it run smoother, that would be very difficult to do. A stock 230 runs very smoothly "as is" if the carb, points, condenser, and coil are good, the timing is properly adjusted, and the fuel mixture is just right. Getting these things sorted out is something you would have to do on any engine. It's no different with the stock engine.

Whether you stay "bone stock" or convert to a totally 12-volt system is up to you. Either way, your wiring is the biggest issue to deal with. It must be perfect from the get-go, or you will have problems.

Happy tinkering!

Oh! P.S.
I would heartily recommend a Pertronix electronic conversion kit for the distributor in either case. Makes tuneups much easier!!

[MSeriesRebuild]

Lifer, please share information about where there are plenty of 12 volt starters that work on the M 37 as replacement units.

[Lifer]

Maybe my "gray cells" are leaking out and turning my hair gray. (Yeah! THAT'S why my hair is almost white!) I may have stepped over the line just a bit when I said that "there ARE plenty of 12-volt starters." That should have been "were."

It might take some digging to find a new one, but rebuildable ones are still "plentiful" if you doon't mind digging through junk piles to find one.

Anyway, almost any MOPAR starter for an inline 6 (prior to the slant six) should work and are avaliable in both 6 and 12 volt versions. Junk yards used to be full of them. Most parts stores can get one for you if it's not in stock. Don't forget agricultural repair shopw, as many old-time implements were powered by MOPAR sixes. My first choice when shopping would be your local electrical rebuild shop. They may just have one or two lying around just waiting for you.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Maybe my "gray cells" are leaking out and turning my hair gray. (Yeah! THAT'S why my hair is almost white!) I may have stepped over the line just a bit when I said that "there ARE plenty of 12-volt starters." That should have been "were."

It might take some digging to find a new one, but rebuildable ones are still "plentiful" if you doon't mind digging through junk piles to find one.

Anyway, almost any MOPAR starter for an inline 6 (prior to the slant six) should work and are avaliable in both 6 and 12 volt versions. Junk yards used to be full of them. Most parts stores can get one for you if it's not in stock. Don't forget agricultural repair shopw, as many old-time implements were powered by MOPAR sixes. My first choice when shopping would be your local electrical rebuild shop. They may just have one or two lying around just waiting for you.

Actually, none of this is factual. You see the military engine starters used a drive that is mechanically spun into mesh with the flywheel ring gear before electrical contact is made. All the others you mention did not utilize the spin in feature, and will cause gears to clash readily almost every time you engage it. I thought maybe you had info on a correct stash somewhere is why I ask. I know of 1 Prestolite brand 12-volt starter that has the correct drive and works great, but they too are getting somewhat hard to come by these days.

[Lifer]

Ouch! Shot myself in the foot, huh? That's what I get for passing along information that I "heard from other sources" without verifying its accuracy, isn't it?

Now for the biggest lie in the military:

"Sorry, Sir! It won't happen again, Sir!"

[powerwagontim]

12 volt Power Wagons were key start, and unless I am mistaken, took the same ring gear as an M37. (Not referring to the later ones with a 251) The Power Wagons dont clash. Why wouldnt a Power Wagon 12 volt starter work in a 12 volt M37?
A 6 volt Power Wagon starter is also foot operated, and although the arm would need to be modified to line up with the pedal, would work on a 12 volt M37. I ran a Power Wagon 12 volt conversion with a 6 volt starter for years with no problems to the starter.
I have takeout Power Wagon starters both 6 and 12 volt stacked like cordwood on a shelf!
Tim

[MSeriesRebuild]

12 volt Power Wagons were key start, and unless I am mistaken, took the same ring gear as an M37. (Not referring to the later ones with a 251) The Power Wagons dont clash. Why wouldnt a Power Wagon 12 volt starter work in a 12 volt M37?
A 6 volt Power Wagon starter is also foot operated, and although the arm would need to be modified to line up with the pedal, would work on a 12 volt M37. I ran a Power Wagon 12 volt conversion with a 6 volt starter for years with no problems to the starter.
I have takeout Power Wagon starters both 6 and 12 volt stacked like cordwood on a shelf!
Tim

Since you are not convinced of the facts, you have lever type starters on the shelf, do your own check out session, then you will see that the spin into mesh drive feature on the M37 starter differs from the non spin drive used on the civilian trucks that have lever type starters.

Some of the solenoid types have the spin into mesh drive, some don't. Same thing applies with these, the spin type works great with an M37 set up, the straight forward slide does not.

[powerwagontim]

Being a mere mortal, and not having the vast knowledge you have, I guess I must automatically be wrong. All I know is that when I turn the key on my Power Wagon, it meshes just fine. I still believe that the Power Wagon took the same ring gear as the M37. 146 tooth if I recall correctly.
Tim

[MSeriesRebuild]

Being a mere mortal, and not having the vast knowledge you have, I guess I must automatically be wrong. All I know is that when I turn the key on my Power Wagon, it meshes just fine. I still believe that the Power Wagon took the same ring gear as the M37. 146 tooth if I recall correctly.
Tim

Simply try out the options like we have, see what your conclusion turns out. Let us know.

I was just like you, thought there was no logical reason why these would not interchange and function great. However when I tried it, I learned better quickly. We are not smarter than you, obviously we have tried this and you haven't. That's the only difference.

[m-37Bruce]

Being a mere mortal, and not having the vast knowledge you have, I guess I must automatically be wrong. All I know is that when I turn the key on my Power Wagon, it meshes just fine. I still believe that the Power Wagon took the same ring gear as the M37. 146 tooth if I recall correctly.
Tim

I'm almost positive my ring gear has 157 teeth? Might have something to with an older French Re-Build being installed in 1967?
I have a 146 that I had polished and was ready to install a few years ago, any takers?

[M37UK]

Being a mere mortal, and not having the vast knowledge you have, I guess I must automatically be wrong. All I know is that when I turn the key on my Power Wagon, it meshes just fine. I still believe that the Power Wagon took the same ring gear as the M37. 146 tooth if I recall correctly.
Tim

I'm almost positive my ring gear has 157 teeth? Might have something to with an older French Re-Build being installed in 1967?
I have a 146 that I had polished and was ready to install a few years ago, any takers?

Well, the French love their food, hence more teeth .......

[m-37Bruce]

Heh-Heh-heh, Good one Stu

[Cal_Gary]

Well, here's my 2 cents:
I run a 12V system and it included a "civilian" flywheel with 146 worn out teeth. When I swapped the flywheel with a true M37 NOS one (again 146 teeth), my 12V starter fried as soon as I hit the key. You should have seen me ripping the passenger seat bottom, battery box cover, and negative wire off the battery as the starter continued to "cook off", basically locked in place (can you say "ouch")? Anyway, avoiding the total vehicle flame-out, I gave it a day or two then pulled the M37 flywheel back off and compared it to the civilian one. The M37 flywheel ended up being quite a bit thicker on the starter side than the civilian flywheel-something I didn't notice at first glance, obviously.

I ended up putting the civilian flywheel back in, and sent my starter to VPW to be swapped out for a new/rebuilt 12V unit. Easy, right? NO-my starter was such an "odd duck" that VPW had to send my core out to have IT rebuilt, as they had nothing in their inventory that would match up.

So, Tim I feel you may be lucky in not having any issues with your set-up, but based on my experience, Charles' expertise seems to match what I experienced-that there are a lot of different starter/flywheel setups that may seem correct but could end up biting one right in the wallet (like mine).
Gary