WWII B17 Crashes Monday

[creinemann]

I don't know if every one heard the sad news, the B-17 "Liberty Belle" had a forced landing in Illinois after a T6 Texan pilot radioed the news to the crew. All seven crew made it out ok. The plane burned almost completely and is a total loss.

Another piece of history in motion lost... so sad

[creinemann]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... erty-belle

[rixm37]

VERY SAD

I had a ride in her 4 years ago. My first in a B17.

[HingsingM37]

A tragic loss

[Cal_Gary]

I saw that last night on the news-tragic. Very much like the PBS special from years ago called B-29, Frozen in Time". They found and restored this B29 in Iceland (I think) only to have the whole thing go up in flames as they were taxiing down the ice on her restored maiden flight.
Gary

[creinemann]

That B 29 story was very tragic, From what I understand there are still over 100 aircraft from world war 2 in greenland and iceland, Frozen in the et ice, oh some like the p 38 glacier girl were recovered and restored

[Tom @ Snake River]

A aquaintance of mine and his girl friend died in May when he went down in his restored Douglas AD4 Skyraider in the mountains of southern Idaho.
I am glad that what I restore has 4 wheels and never leaves the ground.
Here is the link
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51394 ... y.html.csp

[cuz]

The B29 incident was 280 miles north of Thule AFB Greenland. It had made an emergency landing on a frozen lake in the Feb 1947. It was abandoned by the USAF.After some visual recce in the very early 90's Darryl Greenmeir launched a recovery attempt in 1993/94. Although well intentioned it was not carried out very well. Lack of checklist discipline and proper safety equipment and a little common sense left us with only one flyable B29 forever. The fuel pump for the aux power pony engine in the tail was bad so the fuel tank was suspended above the engine so they could gravity feed the pony motor to use it for starting engines. Not a bad idea if you make sure it's secured well, not used while the aircraft is in motion and have proper fire fighting equipment on hand. It was not secured well, the only firefighting equipment were two 2 pound A20 type extinguishers and they failed to follow the checklist and left the pony motor running after all the engines were started and while the airplane was making high speed taxi checks on the bumpy snow covered lake.


This what they found.


Ready for taxi checks


The end of the first taci check

Here are a few links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJb-bmgBC0


The word Crash as used in both of these aircraft incidents is not the correct word.

The B17 had an in flight emergency and made a successful landing off the airport in a field. It subsequently was destroyed by a post landing fire.

The B29 was lost and low on fuel and made a successful off airport landing. It was destroyed 48 years later by an unsuccessful recovery attempt.

[Cal_Gary]

Rekindling my memory Carl and Cuz=thanks!
Gary

[HingsingM37]

So the folks at the Liberty Foundation are saying that when the fire dept arrived the electrical fire was still small and the aircraft was not fully engulfed in fire. Evidently, the fire crew debated for a minute or two about driving the trucks into the field for fear of getting stuck Now, you just had a B17 make a flawless emergency landing and she is sitting on her wheels? Weighs how much? I thought their first priority was to protect life and property, not worry about getting the truck dirty...sad

[cuz]

I would guess the arriving units were not airport type crash trucks with the large cannons used to knock down aircraft fires from a safe distance. I have been around aircraft since I was drafted in 1966. Dealt with several fires on them. As a rule you do not expose yourself to the fire without protective gear unless there is a life to save or you are extremely familiar with the aircraft type and are well aware of the fuel quantity on board it's tankage locations and any other hazardous materials on board and the fire is indeed relatively small yet and you have a large fire extinguisher in your hand.

If they were not a crash type truck, and they had already been advised all crew members were clear of the aircraft and smoke was visible coming from the aircraft and the field was wet as they all were that week then I can understand their concern with pulling up close and getting stuck and not being able back away if the fire became uncontrollable.

In their process of complaining about the fire department actions had any of the aircrew utilize the aircraft's fire extinguishers?

[HingsingM37]

Good points Cuz. Guess I did not take that into consideration

[cuz]

There will always be two sides to every story. Just like two Old Timer mechanics offering two different advices.

[vtdeucedriver]

The B29 incident was 280 miles north of Thule AFB Greenland. It had made an emergency landing on a frozen lake in the Feb 1947. It was abandoned by the USAF.After some visual recce in the very early 90's Darryl Greenmeir launched a recovery attempt in 1993/94. Although well intentioned it was not carried out very well. Lack of checklist discipline and proper safety equipment and a little common sense left us with only one flyable B29 forever. The fuel pump for the aux power pony engine in the tail was bad so the fuel tank was suspended above the engine so they could gravity feed the pony motor to use it for starting engines. Not a bad idea if you make sure it's secured well, not used while the aircraft is in motion and have proper fire fighting equipment on hand. It was not secured well, the only firefighting equipment were two 2 pound A20 type extinguishers and they failed to follow the checklist and left the pony motor running after all the engines were started and while the airplane was making high speed taxi checks on the bumpy snow covered lake.


This what they found.

.

On the B-29, as per the checklist, the APU remains in operation until after take off so having the APU running for taxi and take off are normal. What is not normal was the lack of any safety or respect for a historic aircraft. A friend of the family loaned them some Propellor parts that at that time had a value of over 30k to help get the airplane out!! He was sent videos of the recovery efforts and updates on how the progress was. I am a A&P mechanic and I cant believe some of the shady crap that went on with no reguard for anyones safety. One example was that they took a barrel of fuel and hooked it direct to the carb on the #1 engine and attempted to start it with BENT PROP BLADES!!!! (hense the ladders in the pic above) Now she did not roar to life but they had several cylinders firing and she was certinly attempting to go.............what was that proving??? what if it did start???

Well they had 4 new overhauled engines installed with good props........you can see in the video when she started to burn that the engines had been shut down. They watched her burn drinking the beer that had with them and then once the fire was out, they packed up their clothes and left!!!! They left EVERYTHING!!!! What remained of the aircraft and ALL 4 engines went to the bottom of the lake in the spring!!!!! They left jacks, oil barrels and all the old equipment they brought up there. Greenland is pissed and will not allow anyone for a 2nd recovery from the bottom of the lake, for the stuff (mainly engines and props, maybe outer wing panels) for use.

My friend later got a letter stating that the prop parts belonged to him and if salvaged by anyone that they still remained his...............basically "if you want them back.............go get them"

[HingsingM37]

Wow, I never heard that side of the "B29, Frozen in Time" story. One would think safety would have been 1st priority.
Personally, I thought the idea to fly it out was foolhardy..
Maybe she didn't want to leave....