Electric Power

[M37UK]

OK, before you all flame me to death I was just browsing on the net and came across an electric car conversion kit.
http://www.go-ev.com/
This got me thinking, what would be the problem with fitting one of these motors to an M37? The motors are available with well over 100hp and there is plenty of room on the bed
for batteries, so...........

Any thoughts?

[Deucalion]

Its a nice idea but from what I've seen they are used on lightweight vehicles. I think the M37 might be a bit heavy for an EV conversion.

[Lifer]

I'm sure it could be done, but why? The truck is already about 4 times as heavy as a modern electric vehicle and, while there is plenty of room in the bed for batteries, you'd more than max out the suspension by the time you loaded up enough batteries to provide the power to move the combined vehicle/battery weight. Of course, you would need a massive upgrade on the brakes. You would also be unable to haul any other cargo because of your battery load/weight. Road speed (or lack thereof) is another potential problem. Electric vehicles are historically slower than internal combustion vehicles. Anyone who lives (or has lived) in England will be familiar with electric milk "floats." These are very heavy milk "trucks" that will run all day on a single charge...at walking speed!

[SOTVEN]

I AM SURE THERE IS PLENTY OF POWERFUL ELECTRIC MOTORS OUT THERE THAT COULD HAUL THE M37 AND STILL FIT NICELY UNDER THE HOOD. AT THE YARN FACTORY THAT I USED TO RUN, WE HAD LOTS OF ELECTRIC MOTORS THAT WOULD PRODUCE 100HP, AND STILL WERE SMALLER SIZE THAN THE 230. WE HAD LOTS OF ELECTRIC POWERED CLARK FORKLIFTS, THAT HAULED A**. HOWEVER, IMHO THE PROBLEM WITH ELECTRIC POWERED VEHICLES REMAINS THE ISSUE WITH THE BATTERIES. FOR THOSE CLARKS THAT I FOREMENTIONED. EACH BATTERY WAS 1.1 METRIC TONS, AND WOULD CHARGE ALL NIGHT, TO BE EXAUSTED IN A SINGLE SHIFT. ACTUALLY, I READ RECENTLY ON AN INTERNET ARTICLE THAT THE CHEVY VOLT DOES NOT MAKE AS MANY MILES AS THE MANUFACTURER CLAIMS PER CHARGE. WHICH WERE NOT MANY TO BEGIN WITH. SO BOTTOM LINE, IF YOU ARE TO FILL THE M37 BED WITH BATTERIES TO RUN 2 HOURS, I DO NOT THINK MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE HAPPY WITH IT.

[k8icu]

You have to do it...anything with a TransWarp Drive has to be good! Beam me up Scotty.....

The question is how long with the hyperjump to Warp speed last?

[M37UK]

LOL !!

I figured I would get this response!

Regarding the batteries, they use lithium Ion cells nowadays that are far more efficient than the traditional type.
Also, I read somewhere that they are developing supercapacitors which fully charge in a few minutes.

There is a very good reason to consider EV in the UK with the cost of a litre unleaded now at £1.40 or $8.40 per gallon !!!!!!!!!!.

Beam me up Scotty may not be that far away !!

[SOTVEN]

LOL !!

I figured I would get this response!

Regarding the batteries, they use lithium Ion cells nowadays that are far more efficient than the traditional type.
Also, I read somewhere that they are developing supercapacitors which fully charge in a few minutes.

There is a very good reason to consider EV in the UK with the cost of a litre unleaded now at £1.40 or $8.40 per gallon !!!!!!!!!!.

Beam me up Scotty may not be that far away !!

HOW MUCH IS THE LPG PER GALLON IN THE UK? IN GREECE IT IS HALF THE PRICE, HENCE I CONVERTED MY M37 TO DUAL FUEL GAS/LPG. HERE IN THE STATES HOWEVER, LPG IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN GAS IT SEEMS

[Tanner]

LPG only has 74% of the energy content per unit versus gasoline. Diesel still rocks the top of the energy per unit scale when compared to gasoline.

And the VOLT doesn't have enough 'real-world' testing under it's belt yet to quantify the usable range of battery only usage. But I prefer having the 'range-entender' capability
that the gasoline engine provides...

http://www.propanecarbs.com/propan9.jpg

Tanner

[SOTVEN]

LPG only has 74% of the energy content per unit versus gasoline. Diesel still rocks the top of the energy per unit scale when compared to gasoline.

And the VOLT doesn't have enough 'real-world' testing under it's belt yet to quantify the usable range of battery only usage. But I prefer having the 'range-entender' capability
that the gasoline engine provides...

http://www.propanecarbs.com/propan9.jpg

Tanner

AS FAR AS I KNOW, WHAT YOU SAY TANNER IS TRUE. LPG CONVERSION IS VERY POPULAR IN GREECE THESE DAYS. CARS WITH SMALL MOTORS, (I.E 1.6-2.0 L ENGINES) DO CONSUME MORE LPG TO RUN THE SAME MILES AS THEY WOULD WITH GASOLINE. HOWEVER, ON MY M37, WITH ITS 3.9L AND THE SLOW-AS-SNAIL GEARS, I AM MAKING ALMOST THE SAME MILES PER GALLON AS I AM WITH GASOLINE. THE SAME HAS BEEN OBSERVED BY FRIENDS WHO HAVE V8 LAND ROVERS OR OTHER BIG DISPLACEMENT ENGINE VEHICLES. AND BOTTOM LINE, AT THE FLICK OF A BUTTON I RUN ON GASOLINE AGAIN. THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT THE MORE CARS GET CONVERTED, THE MORE THE GOVERNMENT PAYS ATTENTION TO RAISING TAXES AND FEES ON "OTHER FUELS"

[M37UK]

LOL !!

I figured I would get this response!

Regarding the batteries, they use lithium Ion cells nowadays that are far more efficient than the traditional type.
Also, I read somewhere that they are developing supercapacitors which fully charge in a few minutes.

There is a very good reason to consider EV in the UK with the cost of a litre unleaded now at £1.40 or $8.40 per gallon !!!!!!!!!!.

Beam me up Scotty may not be that far away !!

HOW MUCH IS THE LPG PER GALLON IN THE UK? IN GREECE IT IS HALF THE PRICE, HENCE I CONVERTED MY M37 TO DUAL FUEL GAS/LPG. HERE IN THE STATES HOWEVER, LPG IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN GAS IT SEEMS

LPG is currently approx $4.60 per gallon in the UK.
What needs to be done to perform the conversion on the M37?

Cheers

[SOTVEN]

LOL !!

I figured I would get this response!

Regarding the batteries, they use lithium Ion cells nowadays that are far more efficient than the traditional type.
Also, I read somewhere that they are developing supercapacitors which fully charge in a few minutes.

There is a very good reason to consider EV in the UK with the cost of a litre unleaded now at £1.40 or $8.40 per gallon !!!!!!!!!!.

Beam me up Scotty may not be that far away !!

HOW MUCH IS THE LPG PER GALLON IN THE UK? IN GREECE IT IS HALF THE PRICE, HENCE I CONVERTED MY M37 TO DUAL FUEL GAS/LPG. HERE IN THE STATES HOWEVER, LPG IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN GAS IT SEEMS

LPG is currently approx $4.60 per gallon in the UK.
What needs to be done to perform the conversion on the M37?

Cheers

MY CONVERSION WAS DONE BACK IN 1999, BUT ALL EQUIPMENT IS STILL AVAILABLE. IT CONSISTS OF A TANK WHICH IS MOUNTED PERMENATELY IN THE BACK OF THE TRUCK, AND WHICH WAS THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART OF THE CONVERSION. THOSE TANKS COME IN DIFERENT SIZES AND SHAPES. THE MANUFACTURER OF MINE HAPPENS TO BE "BRC." THEN THERE ARE TWO ELECTROMAGNETIC VALVES, (BRC ALSO) WHICH ARE INSTALLED ONE IN THE GASOLINE LINE, AND ONE IN THE LPG LINE. THOSE OPERATE INVERSLY, SO IF I SWITCH FROM ONE FUEL TO THE OTHER, THEN ONE VALVE CLOSES AND THE OTHER OPENS, AND VICE VERSA. THEN THERE IS A UNIT WHICH IN GREECE WE CALL IT "LUNG" MADE BY "LANDI" AND THROUGH WHICH COOLANT RUNS THROUGH IN ONE CHAMBER FROM THE TRUCK'S COOLING SYSTEM WITH TWO HOSES, AND THROUGH THE OTHER SIDE THE LPG ARRIVES FROM THE FOREMENTIONED VALVE AND THEN HEADS TO THE CARBURATOR. LPG RUNS IN TO THE NECK OF THE CARB, PAST THE "BUTTERFLY", AND NO CHOKE IS NEEDED TO START THE TRUCK AS WITH THE GASOLINE. ALSO FLODDING WITH TOO MUCH FUEL CAN NOT HAPPEN, MAKING IT SUITABLE FOR OFFROADING. ALL THIS IS POWERED BY A SMALL ELECTRONIC DEVISE WHICH IS MOUNTED ON MY DASH, AND THROUGH A SWITCH I CHOOSE THE FUEL WHILE AN ARRAY OF LED LIGHTS SHOWS ME WHAT FUEL I AM USING AND LPG FUEL GAUGE. I HAVE SEEN SOME PEOPLE IN REMOTE AREAS WHO HAVE INSTALLED A "T" SECTION ON THEIR SUPPLY LINES FROM THEIR SOLID MOUNTED TANK, AND THEY RUN REGULAR PROPANE TANKS (CAMPER PROPANE) IN THE UPSIDE DOWN POSITION. CHECK OUT MY PICTURES AT THE GALLERY "SOTIRIOS VENETIS." YOU WILL SEE THE PARTS THERE. THE TOTAL COST INSTALLED THESE DAYS IN GREECE I HAVE HEARD THAT IT RUNS ABOUT 650 EUROS. THE SYSTEM OPERATES ON 12V. BUT THE DRAW IS DISMAL. I USED TO HAVE IT CONNECTED TO MY SECOND BATTERY OF THE 24V SETUP, WITH A LINEAR 5A FUSE. IT WAS WORKING FINE FOR THE FIRST 3 YEARS, BUT THEN I ADDED A RADIO, A BEAM LIGHT AND A CB ALL 12V, AND THE SYSTEM WAS NO LONGER CHARGING PROPERLY WITH 24 AND 12V DRAW AT THE SAME TIME, SO I BOUGHT A 24 TO 12V CONVERTER AND SORTED THEM OUT JUST LIKE THE SEMI'S DO, AND SINCE THEN NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER. ON HOT SUMMER DAYS LPG DOES NOT EVAPORATE LIKE GASOLINE DOES, AND IT DOES NOT CREATE RESIDUE AS THE GAS WILL THROUGH ALL THOSE VARNISHES. BESIDES THE FACT THAT THE TANK IN THE BED STILLS MUCH OF MY SPACE, I LOVE THIS SETUP.

[M37UK]

Thanks for all that info Softven, it was really usefull and interesting.

I will check out the photos.

Cheers

[Master Yota]

I've run LPG for years on many different trucks, and the mechanics of it are all the same no matter the truck its installed on. A big tank for carrying the LPG, pressure rated hose, a vacume lock (opens under engine vacume and allows the flow of LPG to the evaporater; does the same thing as the 12v valve) Evaporater to ensure the LPG is vaporized) and a either an LPG specific carb, or a "fogger" which repalces the top of the air cleaner assy.

The nice thing about LPG setups offroad is the lack of moving parts. No fuel pumps, no electrics (in my case with the vacume lock) no fuel pickups in the tank, and great driveablity. The only downside is the inablity to carry a sufficient amount of "excess" fuel. Its not like dumping a gerry can of gas in the tank when you run dry! And a bbq bottle with a cheater hose dosen't take a V8 very far! Fuel stops need to planned out a little more when on the highway (but LPG is everywhere up here in Canada) and its cheaper, which is a bonus (LPG is about 0.70 cents per litre up here right now). Another bonus, as LPG has no hydrocarbons in it, my engine oil is as clean at an oil change as it was when it was first dumped in. ( I may have the terminology wrong, but either way, the oil stays clean)... Also, LPG never goes bad, so it can remain in the tank for years, and never go stale like Gas does.

The drawbacks are about a 5% loss in both power and mileage in a conventional engine. However, LPG does have a higher octane rating (averages between 102 and 112) than gasoline so engines can be built specificaly to run on only LPG with higher compression ratio's thus making up the loss in performance. Right now, LPG is almost 0.47 cents cheaper than Gas (per litre) so any reduction in MPG is easy offset by cost per mile...

[poor rich]

With regards to L.P. gas;
I worked for an L.P. dealer for several years, all our trucks were L.P. powered, some dual fuel.
Engines burning L.P. burn MUCH cleaner, we changed our engine oil at 7,500 miles out of guilt not because the oil was dirty. Spark plugs virtually never wore out, in fuel injected engines we lost some fuel economy,but in carburated engines we saw a boost in economy. No water in your fuel, spark plugs lasting 100k miles, half as many oil changes, no screwing around with carburators, ect.
Even our bigger diesel trucks had "Red rooster super boosters" L.P. injectors, they work to inject L.P. when pulling or accelerating, eliminating smoke and boosting power by about 10%.
Down side- small fuel tanks, ie. reduced range, (all our trucks were set up to take a "spare" tank). Cold weather (sub zero) startups, ounce started you have to let the engine warm up to have heat to vaporize the liquid fuel.
Our flat head 6 was used for years in forklifts after being discontinued in cars and trucks. If you can find a forklift boneyard you should be able to obtain a complete kit.

With regards to electric;
this is something I have never considered.
Several of my current customers are engineers for Rockwell and build costome Variable Frequency Drives including for some electric vehicles.
According to them, DC drives are a thing of the past. Electronics and electronic components are now plenty robust to handle high power applications ( into the thousands of horse power range).
they use 3 phase motors controlled by V.F.D.s.
I've already had this discussion with them, the best way to power a truck would be to have no current drive train with a motor at each wheel, 4 separate drives, and as you turn a corner you would increase the speed of the 3 outside wheels proportionate to the separate radiuses (no differentials).
I would rather Keep my axels and drive with 2 motors that hang where the transfer case is now. Remember you no longer have an engine, tranny, radiator, ect
This is where your batteries are not the bed.
Another thing is horse power requirements are different, the 3 phase motor powered by the right VFD can produce 125% torque from start up, in other words you can have more power to start moving than driving. A 50 HP electric motor would light up the tires all the way down the block but couldn't get you going very fast. But going up hill fully loaded you need all the HP you can get. So 150 to 200 HP with the drives limiting the acceleration of the motors so you don't twist off your axels, and you'd still kick the ass of any gear head at the stop light.

But as you can tell I haven't given any of this stuff any thought.
Rich

[M37UK]

Thanks Rich, very informative .

You response has pushed me one step closer to LPG conversion .

Cheers