Tires

[Cav Trooper]

I know this has probably been beaten to death many moons ago but, any thoughts on NDT old style military tires in the snow? Is sipping worth considering for wet surfaces or snow? I really can't afford the new design Michelins, I bought the truck with new NDT's on it and another grand just isn't in the budget. If you don't want to start this up, just pm me.

CT

[M37UK]

Well I have used NDT's in the snow for a couple of years now and they havent been too bad. I think ice is more of a problem
than snow as they really dont grip very well on that.

Of course I have no experience in any other tires so I dont know how much better they are.

Hope this helps

[Monkey Man]

NDT's in snow are fine, chains are a fine addition where required but lower tyre pressure and some common sense are your best bet...

Best Regards - MM

[Carter]

NDTs are the only tires I have ever used on all the M37s that I have plowed snow with, they are not good on ice without chains but have never had a lack of traction in snow.

[cuz]

All the Military NDT's, NDCC's and civvy NDT/Directional Muds will move the truck right along in the snow. The Miltary tires are useless on ice and offer very little grip for wet pavement driving. The modern civvy muds do the best all around job at the cost of more noise on dry roads. Chains will solve the traction issues with all of them but chains can be a real PITA on the highway. So if the truck is a daily driver and wet roads and snow and ice are a primary consideration and you don't wish to fight with chains then the civvy muds are ticket.

[Master Yota]

Siping will drastically improve the performance of any tire in wet and icy conditions. Search around online for the proper tire siping tool, and you won't regret it. The tool is much cheaper than a set of new tires.

[ZGjethro]

Siping will drastically improve the performance of any tire in wet and icy conditions. Search around online for the proper tire siping tool, and you won't regret it. The tool is much cheaper than a set of new tires.

I second this. The original NDT's look like a terrible winter tire. Too hard of rubber, and no siping. Most newer mud tires, which most M37 users probably use, have a still too hard rubber and inadequate siping. I run a mud tire all year, but it's performance on hardpack snow and ice is way below that of my studded snows on my 4runner. I get by with the limited winter driving I do in my M37, but mud tires are no substitute for a good snow tire. The reality is that winter driving will encompass loose snow, packed snow, Ice, and black ice on pavement. A tire which only works in soft snow is a poor choice when your's and others safety is at stake.

[cuz]

Studded tires are a bit of an unfair comparison. Many states up here do not allow them. If you studded your mud or NDCC's they would compete reasonably well with your 4runner's studded tires. Modern current production mud&snow tires are siped and do reasonably well on ice/hard packed snow and just fine on wet pavements here in Wisconsin. I would prefer to use radial all weather treads if I intended to compete for those icy roads with the many poor drivers out there. However I doubt many M37 drivers will be driving in ice storms deliberately. On the other side of the coin those all weather radials won't cut thru the 20" of fresh snow we had last weekend but the M37 with it's Goodyear mud&snows walked right thru it to both of the wife's horse paddocks to move round bales in.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Never had issues with NDT's in any conditions, common sense and having some knowledge of driving in adverse conditions is much more a concern. Another big deal is keeping a watchful eye for the other driver who may be doing something stupid.

The "ICE" situation keeps coming up on the down side of NDT's, well if conditions are ice, they are perfect for staying off the road. I've driven with many different types of tires, haven't seen the first one that performed well on ice. Studs or chains are your only hope, and you better be really careful with that if conditions are ice.

[Master Yota]

Never had issues with NDT's in any conditions, common sense and having some knowledge of driving in adverse conditions is much more a concern. Another big deal is keeping a watchful eye for the other driver who may be doing something stupid.

The "ICE" situation keeps coming up on the down side of NDT's, well if conditions are ice, they are perfect for staying off the road. I've driven with many different types of tires, haven't seen the first one that performed well on ice. Studs or chains are your only hope, and you better be really careful with that if conditions are ice.

No offense intended here Charles, but I would think that your location in the Carolina's wouldn't lend for alot of experience with winter driving in bad conditions. As a Canadian, we have 12 months of winter up here, with only 2 months of lousy sledding ( ). The NDT's suck, plain and simple in real winter conditions at anything even remotley approaching highway speed.

Now, as Charles pointed out, common sense and good driving practice will go along way to getting to your destination, but when that practice forces you to drive ALOT slower than the traffic around you due to poor tire choice, you've instantly become the danger factor on the road. You might not hit anyone, but as the slow moving anomaly on the highway, you chances of taking a rear end collision will skyrocket. Plus, as the NDT's no longer meet winter tire regulations enforced in most parts of north america, the likleyhood of having your insurance coverage denied in the face of a crash isn't worth running them at all. Safest bet is to leave the NDT's at home in the winter, or get some better rubber.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Never had issues with NDT's in any conditions, common sense and having some knowledge of driving in adverse conditions is much more a concern. Another big deal is keeping a watchful eye for the other driver who may be doing something stupid.

The "ICE" situation keeps coming up on the down side of NDT's, well if conditions are ice, they are perfect for staying off the road. I've driven with many different types of tires, haven't seen the first one that performed well on ice. Studs or chains are your only hope, and you better be really careful with that if conditions are ice.

No offense intended here Charles, but I would think that your location in the Carolina's wouldn't lend for alot of experience with winter driving in bad conditions. As a Canadian, we have 12 months of winter up here, with only 2 months of lousy sledding ( ). The NDT's suck, plain and simple in real winter conditions at anything even remotley approaching highway speed.

Now, as Charles pointed out, common sense and good driving practice will go along way to getting to your destination, but when that practice forces you to drive ALOT slower than the traffic around you due to poor tire choice, you've instantly become the danger factor on the road. You might not hit anyone, but as the slow moving anomaly on the highway, you chances of taking a rear end collision will skyrocket. Plus, as the NDT's no longer meet winter tire regulations enforced in most parts of north america, the likleyhood of having your insurance coverage denied in the face of a crash isn't worth running them at all. Safest bet is to leave the NDT's at home in the winter, or get some better rubber.

Obviously you have no idea of my background of being on the road in adverse driving conditions, but I won't bother to go into all of that, doesn't really matter anyway. You also have to realize that since we don't have winters down here like you experience in Canada, that brings out multitudes of inexperienced drivers when conditions are bad; that in itself creates the larger hazard.

[ZGjethro]

Studded tires are a bit of an unfair comparison. Many states up here do not allow them. If you studded your mud or NDCC's they would compete reasonably well with your 4runner's studded tires. Modern current production mud&snow tires are siped and do reasonably well on ice/hard packed snow and just fine on wet pavements here in Wisconsin. I would prefer to use radial all weather treads if I intended to compete for those icy roads with the many poor drivers out there. However I doubt many M37 drivers will be driving in ice storms deliberately. On the other side of the coin those all weather radials won't cut thru the 20" of fresh snow we had last weekend but the M37 with it's Goodyear mud&snows walked right thru it to both of the wife's horse paddocks to move round bales in.

Studded tires are an advantage, but on virtually any passenger vehicle (not thinking of m37's) a snow tire will vastly out perform a mud tire or an all season tire. Modern studless tires like a Blizzack or Michelin Ice X, or Nokians are nearly as good as studs for highway driving. Deep snow off road is another story. For that you need lugs and voids, and siping is not very important. I do not have the deep pockets to put both on my truck, so I run the beefy mud style tire all year. I know it is a compromise and drive accordingly. And put very little milage on the truck in bad weather. The issue here is the NDT's, which definitely are not up to par with modern snow tires.

[8543bob]

GOOD MORNING ALL,
I guess you all have hard that the N/E got hit by a big snow storm. In my area, Breezy Point, 11697, we had 28". I had to take the M to where my boat is docked, in Brooklyn, to shovel off the snow. The snow weighs pretty good and puts the boat lower in the water, but anyhow it had to get done. This was my first experience using the M in the snow. Last winter I had an engine knock that sidetracked the the M for the winter. I have the original NDT military tires on her. I was very impressed, even in 2 wheel drive it handled well. In 4 wheel drive high it was great. I pulled an Avalange, no pun intended, out of a drift on the way there, using 4wd high, no problem. The tires worked great, I like the look and now I know they work great. It was a good feeling helping a fairly new 4wd vehicle with a '52 dodge. BOB

[Josh]

No idea if he is still in the game, but there used to be a guy in Wisconsin that sold Michelin take offs very reasonably. I happened to find his number on my desk the other day, so, good timing for you (couldn't for the life of me find it when I was trying to buy my set of Michelins!).

Number is: 715-Three Zero Five -9993. Name is Rodney.

And, for the record, 1100X16 michelins look BAD ASS. No idea if they work well yet, but if they work 1/2 as well as they look, I will be thrilled!!

[Cav Trooper]

Thanks for the phone number. Now, I'm in the decision mode, do I sip or do I replace the tires? I have read the articles over on one of the off road boards about siping, hand vs. machine siping, etc. and how well it works, most are talking about the mudder tires though. Now, looking at the new NDT's and they look pretty cool, but I still like the look of the originals though and mine are new original style tires. I hate and can't really afford to go through the expense of pulling them off and replacing. Also looking at maybe doing the front disc conversion (another big expense) since my brakes don't seem to work as well as I remember drums working. I think I may have to try re-arching the shoes since I know the previous owner turned the drums and most likely didn't have the shoes fitted. I know the shoes will eventually wear in but I don't want to ruin my day buy running over a couple of Toyotas trying to make a fast stop.

Cav Trooper