Engine rebuild shops?

[scott k]

Is there any good engine rebuild shops that have experience working on the dodge 230, around or close to east central Iowa? One off my 37's is gettin really tired. I'm thinking of pulling the engine and would like to find a shop in my area. Thanks for the help.

[Lifer]

Have you checked with Vintage Power Wagons? They're located in Fairfield, on old US 34. (I say "old" US 34 because the last time I was through there, they had built a by-pass around the town for the convenience of the tourists who used to complain about its lone traffic light. )

[scott k]

I have gotten some parts from them, good people, but I didn't know if they had the machining equipment to do it or just farmed it out.

[MSeriesRebuild]

We aren't local to Iowa, but we build 230 engines from all over. Just stick it in a crate and send it our way, happy to do it for you. Send it back with a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. You can check out some of our engine builds on the website shown in the signature below. Give me a call or send an email if we can help or you would like to discuss it further.

[N1VSM]

I was lucky - I found a guy here in Western MA who rebuilt the 230's for GE for 35 years. He rebuilt my engine & it is a thing of beauty. A bit of a long haul for you, but maybe if you ask around there may be someone like this in your area.

I've had several major parts rebuilt by Charles @ MSeries, and he has done a top notch job on every one.

One thing that I've learned from this forum ... caveat emptor: you get what you pay for in rebuilds.

[jbxx]

True, but don't assume that just because you spend a buttload of money you will get
a quality rebuild. Let me qualify the last statement. I spent way too much for a rebuild.
24K$ for an engine, a clutch upgrade, a brake job, and some electrical.
The work was well done but I now have a cracked block and less than 250 mi. on the rebuild
( never overheated ). Now I'm not so gainfully employed as previous times. I am considering
removing the engine and sending it to Charles to have it done right! I'm not slamming the
rebuilder (not Charles), cause "stuff" happens, but my plan was to get the engine straight, get the vehicle driveable. Then work on all the ancillary stuff. I figured by spending a bunch up front, I could spend more time enjoying my resto. Ha, so much for plans!
I'm in the middle of a Frankenstroker for another project first though. Maybe I'll put the stroked
4.7L I6 ( was 4.0 ) in the m37.
J.B.

[Master Yota]

True, but don't assume that just because you spend a buttload of money you will get
a quality rebuild. Let me qualify the last statement. I spent way too much for a rebuild.
24K$ for an engine, a clutch upgrade, a brake job, and some electrical.
The work was well done but I now have a cracked block and less than 250 mi. on the rebuild
( never overheated ). Now I'm not so gainfully employed as previous times. I am considering
removing the engine and sending it to Charles to have it done right! I'm not slamming the
rebuilder (not Charles), cause "stuff" happens, but my plan was to get the engine straight, get the vehicle driveable. Then work on all the ancillary stuff. I figured by spending a bunch up front, I could spend more time enjoying my resto. Ha, so much for plans!
I'm in the middle of a Frankenstroker for another project first though. Maybe I'll put the stroked
4.7L I6 ( was 4.0 ) in the m37.
J.B.

Am I reading this right? You spent 24 thousand dollars! on an engine rebuild, brake and clutch job, and some electrical repair?

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting, but, are you one of those mythical people that have (had) more money than brains? Do you have sucker written on your forhead? Were you born yesterday, or last night? My own opinion here, is that whomever did the work, saw you comming, and planned his vacation, and his kids college education around your job. I just can't fathom spending so much for so little work. Please forgive the un-intended tone in my post, I'm just in shock.

[M37UK]

Maybe he meant 24K as in Karat Gold ??

[jbxx]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting, but, are you one of those mythical people that have (had) more money than brains? Do you have sucker written on your forhead? Were you born yesterday, or last night? My own opinion here, is that whomever did the work, saw you comming, and planned his vacation, and his kids college education around your job. I just can't fathom spending so much for so little work.

Haha, I'd hate to see when you were trying to be insulting!
No I never imagined it would cost that much, I was working all the time and didn't have the time to mess with it myself.
My point was, just by throwing money at something does not guarantee a quality job.

[MSeriesRebuild]

True, but don't assume that just because you spend a buttload of money you will get
a quality rebuild. Let me qualify the last statement. I spent way too much for a rebuild.
24K$ for an engine, a clutch upgrade, a brake job, and some electrical.
The work was well done but I now have a cracked block and less than 250 mi. on the rebuild
( never overheated ). Now I'm not so gainfully employed as previous times. I am considering
removing the engine and sending it to Charles to have it done right! I'm not slamming the
rebuilder (not Charles), cause "stuff" happens, but my plan was to get the engine straight, get the vehicle driveable. Then work on all the ancillary stuff. I figured by spending a bunch up front, I could spend more time enjoying my resto. Ha, so much for plans!
I'm in the middle of a Frankenstroker for another project first though. Maybe I'll put the stroked
4.7L I6 ( was 4.0 ) in the m37.
J.B.

Am I reading this right? You spent 24 thousand dollars! on an engine rebuild, brake and clutch job, and some electrical repair?

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting, but, are you one of those mythical people that have (had) more money than brains? Do you have sucker written on your forhead? Were you born yesterday, or last night? My own opinion here, is that whomever did the work, saw you comming, and planned his vacation, and his kids college education around your job. I just can't fathom spending so much for so little work. Please forgive the un-intended tone in my post, I'm just in shock.

Master Yota, I'm not suggesting that 24K was a good price at all; but you have my curiosity up after reading your comments; how much would one pay for this same work done in a premium quality fashion from local sources where you are?

[Master Yota]

True, but don't assume that just because you spend a buttload of money you will get
a quality rebuild. Let me qualify the last statement. I spent way too much for a rebuild.
24K$ for an engine, a clutch upgrade, a brake job, and some electrical.
The work was well done but I now have a cracked block and less than 250 mi. on the rebuild
( never overheated ). Now I'm not so gainfully employed as previous times. I am considering
removing the engine and sending it to Charles to have it done right! I'm not slamming the
rebuilder (not Charles), cause "stuff" happens, but my plan was to get the engine straight, get the vehicle driveable. Then work on all the ancillary stuff. I figured by spending a bunch up front, I could spend more time enjoying my resto. Ha, so much for plans!
I'm in the middle of a Frankenstroker for another project first though. Maybe I'll put the stroked
4.7L I6 ( was 4.0 ) in the m37.
J.B.

Am I reading this right? You spent 24 thousand dollars! on an engine rebuild, brake and clutch job, and some electrical repair?

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting, but, are you one of those mythical people that have (had) more money than brains? Do you have sucker written on your forhead? Were you born yesterday, or last night? My own opinion here, is that whomever did the work, saw you comming, and planned his vacation, and his kids college education around your job. I just can't fathom spending so much for so little work. Please forgive the un-intended tone in my post, I'm just in shock.

Master Yota, I'm not suggesting that 24K was a good price at all; but you have my curiosity up after reading your comments; how much would one pay for this same work done in a premium quality fashion from local sources where you are?

I can't honestly say Charles, as I do all my own work myself, as I'm fairly confident that nobody loves my truck, or my money, like I do... But I have done similar jobs in the past, and I've worked in the industry, so I can at least ballpark a figure for you.

I know that I only paid about 50$. for the last set of brake shoes I puchased new off the shelf (2 pair - so say a 100$ if all four wheels needed shoes). Paid $50. for all four drums to be turned on a brake lathe - so now I'm into a brake job for 150.00 dollars in parts and my free labor to do all four wheels. The wheel cyls. were in decent shape, so they just got a hone and re-installed. (If JBXX needed a new master cyl. and lines, add another 150.00 in parts to the final total - I took a brake job as being at the wheels only).

I used to work in a transmission shop, so I know all about the cost of labour. Most shops that do automotive work in my area charge around 80-100 dollars an hour as the going shop rate, and all jobs are based on the Chilton manuals aloted time (give or take...) As I've never seen an M37 in a Chilton manual, most shops around here would simply quote something similar on a cost plus basis. As a technician with all the right tools, I could have a 2wd transmission on the floor in under 15 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised to not find a clutch setup for under 300.00 dollars, plus another $50. to grind (resurface) the flywheel. Into this now for about 350.00 in parts, not counting labour.

The engine is trickier to price out. I wouldn't bother spending a dime on the boat anchor 230, or 251 but for the sake of argument, I do know that it costs about 150. dollars to hot tank and magnaflux the block and head, $20 dollars per hole to bore the block, $100 to resurface a crank and $100 bucks to resize the rods. A line bore is also about $100.00. Another $100. will true the block and head surfaces. Whats left, the rebuild kit itself, soft and hard parts and whatever else needs to be replaced, so I'll guess it out to somewhere around 600.00 for the rebuild kit with brand name parts, (Victor or Felpro gaskets, Cleavite Bearings, etc...). I would also factor in about 400.00 to do any valve train machining that might be necessary (the average OHV head job around here is 600.00 complete so I'm pitching the price in the ball park). So the engine comes in around 1500.00 in parts and machine work. Thats if the crank uses shell bearings, if they are babit, add another grand at the minimum. (I don't remember what the bottem end is, as I've never bothered to look).

As for chasing electrical gremlins, who knows how long that would take. Most shops would charge by the hour, and with a rotten M37 harness to play with, its cheaper to just purchase a new harness (350.00 - I know because I have one sitting on the floor) rather than waste time and money with old, brittle wiring...

So, by my math, I'm at around 2350.00 give or take for an upgraded clutch, brakes, and an engine that I need to now assemble. Or I could fork over another 800.00 to the engine shop and have them assemble it for me, so all I need to do is install it, and then call them to be on hand for the initial start-up (no charge, its included in the warranty).

Now, these numbers are not set in stone, but off the top of my head from the cost of doing business with alot of these shops over the years. Things change however, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was out by 30% or so, but I'm fairly certain that I'm in the ball park. Plus, I've based these numbers on top notch business' that I've dealt with, or worked for in the past, so I'm not farming the work out to the cheapest bidder. Plus I've come in at only 10% of what JBXX forked out for the same job, by doing the labour myself, and saving 100.00 per hour. A little math here - JBXX would have had to have his truck in someones shop for over 210 hours @ $100.00 per hour to spend 21,000.00 plus parts. Even if it took a shop 2 full days to perform each job, at 8hrs. per day for the brakes, transmission work, and electrical repair (the engine work is usually done at flat rate), that still only works out to about 4800.00 in labour plus the parts at 2350 would leave a bill around $7150.00 (even this number sends me into sticker shock mode - this is why I learned to twist wrenches myself).

Can someone please tell me where the other $18,000.00 dollars is - and what JBXX should do with an engine that only went 250 miles?

(thanks for taking my earlier post in-stride JBXX - I still get chills just thinking about how much money you spent... )

[pwrwagonfire]

I was lucky - I found a guy here in Western MA who rebuilt the 230's for GE for 35 years. He rebuilt my engine & it is a thing of beauty. A bit of a long haul for you, but maybe if you ask around there may be someone like this in your area.

I've had several major parts rebuilt by Charles @ MSeries, and he has done a top notch job on every one.

One thing that I've learned from this forum ... caveat emptor: you get what you pay for in rebuilds.

Where abouts is your guy located if you don't mind? I'm just curious

I live in Leominster, and work in Erving/Franklin County. Got my M37 up at Stone's in Montague right now (great guys, do great work) for a head gasket/few other things.

[N1VSM]

He's Pittsfield, MA, as am I. If you're ever up this way, I can show you his work, or you can PM me & I'll get you his name & number. He doesn't advertise anywhere - works solely by word of mouth.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Yota, I just read your comments hurridly; kind of vague I thought; don't recall you mentioning anything about whether the engine was balanced as part of the job you are speaking of, rods, rotating assy?? What about all the engine accessory items, starter, generator/alternator, fuel pump, carb, distributor, oil pump, clutch assy, new plugs and wires, new water pump?? Are these items rebuilt as part of the job? What type of warranty is offered? Do valve seats get replaced with high nickel seats for unleaded gas? Do the valves get replaced or just ground? Valve guides, springs? Do spring shims get installed to allow for spring heat set? Does the head get surfaced, does the intake/exhaust assy get surfaced, do cracks in the exhaust manifold get repaired if there are any? Flywheel get surfaced, block deck? Lots of issues were not addressed. Are you simply talking about a rebuild in a long block configuration and bolting untouched accessories back on or what? I'd have to have a bunch more detail concerning what is and isn't getting looked at before making a judgement call on this one.

[Master Yota]

Yota, I just read your comments hurridly; kind of vague I thought; don't recall you mentioning anything about whether the engine was balanced as part of the job you are speaking of, rods, rotating assy?? What about all the engine accessory items, starter, generator/alternator, fuel pump, carb, distributor, oil pump, clutch assy, new plugs and wires, new water pump?? Are these items rebuilt as part of the job? What type of warranty is offered? Do valve seats get replaced with high nickel seats for unleaded gas? Do the valves get replaced or just ground? Valve guides, springs? Do spring shims get installed to allow for spring heat set? Does the head get surfaced, does the intake/exhaust assy get surfaced, do cracks in the exhaust manifold get repaired if there are any? Flywheel get surfaced, block deck? Lots of issues were not addressed. Are you simply talking about a rebuild in a long block configuration and bolting untouched accessories back on or what? I'd have to have a bunch more detail concerning what is and isn't getting looked at before making a judgement call on this one.

Charles, please take the time to re-read my post, as several of your questions were answered in there. As for the depth of knowledge required to make a judgement call on this, you didn't ask for that. You simply asked what I thought was a reasonable price for a premium rebuild. I've given you that. Lets also factor in that I'm a Canadian, and only 5000 (or so, if I remember correctly) M37's were canadian made. The availablity of brand new parts up here is rather slim compared to down south where you are, so my take on a premium rebuild is probably alot different that yours. I'll try to answer some of your other specifics a little more.

Balancing of the rotating assy. (if asked for) would cost more money naturally. Its been a while since I had an engine balanced, but the cost was still very reasonable, around 300.00 IIRC. Valve seats would be replaced to satisfy the needs of unleaded fuel, however the valves (if in good shape) would probably just be surface ground, unless replacement was necessary due to poor condition Valve guides would be replaced, as would the springs, pushrods would be checked and surface machined (if applicable) but only replaced as necessary, lets also factor in a re-ground camshaft (only because I'm not sure if a new one exists, but I'm fairly sure a re-grind does). All engine surfaces would be re-trued, but there may be an additional cost for the manifolds as I didn't buget for that, nor any needed repairs (thanks for reminding me of that, I was working from a perfect world). As for accessories, I paid 12 dollars for a carb rebuild kit, and I've seen generator rebuild kits for 50 dollars, so lets add those in too. Lets also say that the starter works just fine, but we've taken it apart and cleaned it, painted it, and re-installed it. Lets put new spark plugs in - worth about 12 dollars each so add another 72 dollars to the bill. Plug wires are extremely difficult to get up here, so lets just check them for continuity and resistance, and if ok, leave them for now. We'll also re-use the distributor, but install new points, condensor and whatnot, and a new coil. Don't forget some fresh clean oil in the air filter. Lets also add 50 dollars for new coolant, plus another 75 dollars to have the radiator flushed and pressure tested. Speaking of pressure, lets spend 12 bucks on a new thermostat as well.

Factoring in the particulars that Charles has asked for might add another 1000-1500 dollars to the total build number in my previous post due to some additional parts and machining that I hadn't thought of. Either way, its still less than what JBXX has shelled out. We must also consider value for the money spent. None of us as enthusiasts will ever get all the money back that we've invested into our trucks when we sell them. They just are not a good financial investment. We do what we do as a labour or love. That being said though, we can control to some degree how much we invest ourselves into this hobby. Nobody likes a money pit, or a pride-eating black hole of a project that you can't bare to look at due to the cost.

Now, this is purely my opinion and I'm perfectly content to let anyone do whatever they want with thier truck, and thier money, and any problem that I may have is strictly my own with whatever the outcome is. There is nothing personal between what I think, and what anybody else does. My own personal opinion is that anyone who owns a business and stands behind a counter is a salesman, pure and simple. They make thier lively-hood by selling you work and parts, whether you need them or not. Some salesmen are better than others, and some are more honest, or devious, than others. Many a counterman has sold uneeded bits and pieces and upgrades to the uneducated consumer, and made a killing at it at the consumers expense. Its very easy to waste money in this particular hobby, especially when we the consumer don't have a good grasp on what we actually need, compared to what we want. Plus, anybody who is profitable during a recession, in the business of selling parts and labour, is just a silver-tongued devil in a salesmans coveralls.