Engine serials vs chassis serials 1951

[cuz]

I am working on a research project and I need to see a sampling of engine vs chassis serials in 1951. Especially February to August 1951. I looked in the Registry and I only found 3 engine serials listed there. Two were obviously much later replacements and one was a WWII engine. Can some of you guys with 51 models email me your chassis serial, DOD and engine serial?

wsknettl@centurytel.net

[captain kirk]

I don`t know if you looked at mine in the registry but as far as i know mine has the original engine, having known that it has not been changed in the past 31 years. And it only had 4800 miles on it when i got it, i can`t believe it would have been changed.
Kirk

[cuz]

Hello Kirk,

I saw it but the engine serial format does not follow the standard format. Your posted engine serial is: T245A23I172

With a chassis serial of 80006674 the engine serial should have been more like 7000 not 231,172. Also I believe the A is representative of the original M37B1 engine.

[captain kirk]

I double checked the number on my block and it is T245A-23I172 as posted, i have had the truck for 11 years and the past owner which was a municipality had it for over 20 years. They had recieved it from the civil defense which is why it was all white when i got it. So i guess there is the possiblity of the engine being replaced prior to that although when i recieved the truck it only had 4800 miles on it, i find it hard to believe it was changed but who knows.
Kirk

[captain kirk]

One more thing, after the 23 is a letter I not a number 1if that makes more sense. Keep us informed on your findings and im curious as to what your trying to find out with this research.
Kirk
PS. My truck was built in Feb also.

[cuz]

I am trying to determine roughly where engine serial T245-3955 falls in the chassis serial group.

As I said above I believe your engine serial is a M37B1 serial based on the A suffix to the T245.

Odometer readings are not very reliable in any older vehicle with a mechanical recording odometer which could have been changed at any point in the trucks 50 year history. When we changed inoperative speedos out we installed the new 0.0 speedo and recorded the old speedo reading in the vehicle records. Those records were not sent with the vehicle and instead were destroyed when the vehicle got surplused out.

[cuz]

Still looking for engine serials from 1951 model M37's. I have been through the data base and theres very few engine numbers there. If we can marry 3955 engine serial or one close to it to a chassis serial we can pinpoint where the high fill port vs low fill port change occurs in the early tranny.

[MSeriesRebuild]

I double checked the number on my block and it is T245A-23I172 as posted, i have had the truck for 11 years and the past owner which was a municipality had it for over 20 years. They had recieved it from the civil defense which is why it was all white when i got it. So i guess there is the possiblity of the engine being replaced prior to that although when i recieved the truck it only had 4800 miles on it, i find it hard to believe it was changed but who knows.
Kirk

Kirk, it was ritual for all M Series vehicles to be pulled out of service for a depot level rebuild at 12,000 miles back in the day. At this time, engines were typically replaced with a rebuilt one that stood ready to install. Speedometers were typically replaced at rebuild also, thus the vehicle started out at zero miles after the build. Likely your truck has at least 16,800 actual miles on it, or even more if it went through more than 1 depot level rebuild; pretty likely for a '51 model that has a B1 engine installed. It would be extremely rare to find a truck that has the original engine that it rolled off the line with for this reason. The engines that got pulled out went back to the rebuild shop for an overhaul; then went back into another truck at a later date. It is pretty much a given that if a truck still had its original engine, it was surplused before it had 12,000 miles on it.

[captain kirk]

I understand what you are saying Charles and possibly that is the case with my M. But one other thing i have not mentioned is that my M still has tires on it that 3 of them are dated 1951 and the other is dated 1953, also when i took control of my M everything appeared to be original including the wood on the troop seats and canvas which was in bad shape. Maybe it has had a couple of rebuilds but they must have been complete and not just the engine because even the rest of the drive train is in fair to good shape. I wish i could find out the history of my M all the way back to Feb 1951.
Kirk

[cuz]

Kirk Said:

Maybe it has had a couple of rebuilds but they must have been complete and not just the engine because even the rest of the drive train is in fair to good shape.

As Charles said above they went through a depot level rebuild which is an IRAN (Inspect and repair as needed) which covered the trucks bumper to bumper.

Those old tires are most likely surplus tires picked up and/or stocked by the using municipal agency and installed on the truck while it was in service with them.

Try to keep in mind that you have had the 60 year old truck for it's last 11 years, and the municipal mileage during their 20 years of ownership was probably not much. During the first 29 years of its life Civil Defence use was at most sporatic since they stockpiled a ton of these vehicles for occasional exercise and disaster use for a few years and the Military got the rest of those years and miles.

[MSeriesRebuild]

I understand what you are saying Charles and possibly that is the case with my M. But one other thing i have not mentioned is that my M still has tires on it that 3 of them are dated 1951 and the other is dated 1953, also when i took control of my M everything appeared to be original including the wood on the troop seats and canvas which was in bad shape. Maybe it has had a couple of rebuilds but they must have been complete and not just the engine because even the rest of the drive train is in fair to good shape. I wish i could find out the history of my M all the way back to Feb 1951.
Kirk

All the components on the trucks got replaced in the same manner as the engines during depot rebuilds, along with wiring, seats, tires, blast and paint, etc; very likely not any are original equipment. Many components were removed and replaced that still had good service life remaining, but it's just the way business was conducted. Canvas life expectancy is nowhere near 60 years, even in the best of conditions. Wood most likely would have been replaced at depot level build also, whether it needed it or not was usual practice.

[captain kirk]

Thanks for the info, i am going to try and trace it back as far as i can with help from the municipality that i got it from. Such as the exact date they recieved it from the CD and what CD they recieved it from. I will keep you informed if i can recieve any info.
Kirk

[NebM37]

I maybe can help here... my one M37 is serial 80006188 and has the high fill port transmission. fair chance it may have the original engine/transmission also. It was given to the Sioux Indian tribe in 1959 according to what I was told. They were given 4 trucks at the time, two for parts, two for use. mine happens to be one of the parts trucks. It just never got parted out and was used to haul trash. It's complete for the most part, a real survivor. I will grab a flashlight and see if I can get a engine # for you and that may shed some light. In fact I will check all 3 trucks, I know the one runner has a civy engine transplant and the low fill port, I will check my parts truck also.

update: Not sure this will help much. Best I can tell (oil fill tube) after careful examination and much straining of my eyes here is what I found. Engine #T245 T2514 that's all that's on the pad. Cowl # is 1910-2033 if that helps.

Ok...curiosity got the better of me and I drug the truck into the daylight and scratched and looked again...I think in all honesty the engine number is T245-T251 the "4" I thought was behind it is not visible in the light. I got to looking, no one has any engine #'s posted for trucks earlier than mine, so now I am really confused lol did they start at zero? My truck is about the 246th or so built if I read the production summery correctly.

NoRm

[cuz]

Hello NoRm,

Thanks a lot. It's a big help. I look forward to hearing from you again on the other trucks. Are you by chance from the Chadron area?