Nature of the beast ...

[Lifer]

Isn't it amazing how a single word can mean one thing to one person but mean something totally different to another? No wonder foreigners have a hard time learning English!

Hey, are you speaking about us Scots again Lifer !!!!

Nae, Laddie! 'Tis the Welsh! They cannae seem to grasp the English tongue. You and I know that "Wales" is not spelt "P O W Y S," but ye cannae tell them that!

[Monkey Man]

Charles, rightly so, points out that that his vehicles do not leak when they leave his shop, using all his experience and the products available today a leak free vehicle is quite possible and no doubt enjoyable to own. His vehicles aren't just for showroom display, they are everything from private vehicles to workhorses that will see regular on and off-road use so I don't blame him for being proud (and a whisker defensive) of what they achieve at M Series Rebuild. Other folks on here that restore vehicles also do a great job but may miss a worn seal surface and end up with a resulting weep but no tears are shed over it.
My point is, most folks do a good job at the level they have attained in experience and skill.
Restored and origonal have many meanings.....
Restored (returned to factory build quality and originality - a lot of folks achieve this)
Restored (Returned better than factory build quality and mostly origonal - fewer achieve this)
Restored a bit... (Returned to working order but a tidy unit, mostly origonal - Lots of these out there)
Restored (Returned to working order but not origonal, some new parts used - Many folks achieve this)
Restored (Returned to working order, modded and not origonal, tidy though... (this would be my truck ))
Restored ( They cleaned the rust off the bonnet, rest of truck looks like hell but hey, E-Bay, here we come - Rare and expensive, Bid now....)
Reestorred - ( Well, its gotta gun mount, hooks fer hangin up the roadkill, Tractur Tires and uh biga$$ engun for fogin thru thuh swampy stuff)
All origonal (not restored a real gem, minor rust, all origonal, well worth buying)
All origonal (Pity it was used in the last demolition derby)
All origonal (you can't quite make out the shape of the vehicle under all the blackberries etc. and you think there is some paint left)
All origonal (yes, all origonal and all there, just a pity it's been left to weather and you can barely make out the shape of the vehicle due to rust having eaten a good percentage of it)

NB - All vehicles classed as all origonal (except the one that is a real gem) should be on E-Bay real soon, also classed as rare, quite expensive and you really should bid now .....

Hope this clears some confusion up!!

Best Regards - MM

[k8icu]

OMG! Charles dude that was meant as funny!

Secondly,

In 1991 I got into a HMMWV that was 2 weeks old. We drove from Medina Ohio to Port Clinton Ohio (Camp Perry Joint Training Site) in the rain and the brand new 1.25 ton military truck windshield leaked on both the drivers foot and on mine!

I've seen new FMTVs that leak from their diffs and motors in the motor pool. That is why it is SOP for units to carry drip pans and put them under the truck when they stop.

I feel my list is good to go for most MV owners!

[Josh]

I think that any leak can be stopped, but, having it leak first time out is not uncommon. So far, EVERY SINGLE SYSTEM on my truck has, was, or is leaking:

bad clutch slave (willwoods fault, crummy threads)
bad water pump (I assume the seal dried out and cracked in the 2 years the engine sat with no coolant in it, as it did not leak when I bought it)
fuel pressure regulator test port (My bad, didn't tighten the plug enough)
Transmission (my fault, left a bolt loose)
engine oil -valve covers. love the stupid design Chrysler used for them... still leaking. Sigh.
Power steering... not sure why or how... can't see where it is coming from, yet.
Vaccum system (my fault, cracked a fitting installing it)

point is, most of these are easily remidied, nothing to get in a twist over.

[Master Yota]

When these trucks were designed, they didn't really have a 60 odd year lifespan in mind, more like 6 months under combat conditions, and maybe a few years in regular service... To find a newly rebuilt truck (and associated components) that dosen't leak would be very surprising. The term that needs definition is not "restoration" but "leak". I'll gaurantee that after rebuilding the front knuckles, even after only a week, there would be a grease residue on the knuckle ball that you could wipe off with your finger. Does this mean that I need to do the job again? No. Does this mean my knuckles are leaking grease? Technically yes, but its all right, and really nothing to worry over. Same goes for Ujoints. Lots of new joints will toss out some grease when spinning. Dosen't mean the joint is bad. Same goes for seals. The seal itself needs lubrication, otherwise it burns on the mating surface due to friction. A slight weeping or stain on the back of the component should be considered normal (within reason)...

95% of enthusiasts don't have the money just lying around to retrofit every component on the truck in a single shot, so we tend to rebuild components as funds allow. The fellow that takes 10 years to redo his truck will discover that the damn thing leaks when driving it, as the seals that were first replaced 10 years ago have dried out. Now its time to do it again, or hope that the seals swell up again and the job they were intended to do. A "rolling" restoration is usually the more common way to go. Spend the money on the parts that need it, and leave what works alone until otherwise needed. Anyone who thinks that a truck can magically roll out of the shop, used, and not need to be touched again for several (insert favorite time line here) has been standing over the parts washer for too long.

Its called regular maintenance for a reason. It regularly requires a wrench to be turned to keep it operational. Restored or otherwise.

[MSeriesRebuild]

All sorts of ifs, ands, and buts can be discussed here. Take the knuckle ball question, we do a couple of things in that situation that I've never seen discussed here that really make a difference in that area. I simply don't share all the things we have learned along the way, it's just business. Another huge factor at the knuckles is the quality of the grease one uses. Cheap stuff will separate and bleed in warm weather, no seal will stop that, but high quality greases that don't separate and bleed will take one far on eliminating drips at the knuckles. My personal opinion of the very thin film on the ball, it is necessary, that is how grease does it's job and is not a leak. A leak is when it is there in excess instead of providing the thin film that it should, when it is falling off the joints, or when a low quality grease is used and the oil in it separates and constantly drips. As far as drive shaft u-joints go, most people tend to over grease them. Of course any excess lube will sling out past the seals if this is the case. Once the excess is out, then the joint seals should do their job and the joints should run normally without seepage. This of course depends on using premium quality grease that stays where you put it and quality u-joints with good seals. NOS joints won't even come close here. Thinking about how the components that were originally used to build these trucks may have performed, well that just makes no sense as tecnology has moved things light years since these trucks rolled off the line. Plain and simple, in most areas of sealing issues on these trucks, way better products are out there today than were available in the 50's. If your thinking is it was good enough for them then, it should work fine now; well you are in another world, so I guess just disregard anything else and go for it. Picking up NOS joints and storing on your shelf, pretty much $$ wasted

Like I've said concerning many other things, the common sense factor goes far here as well. Premium quality oils and grease are blended with ingredients that keeps seals soft and flexible. Cheap lubes with low quality additive packages are just that, quality additive packages that make lubes perform the best they can will make huge differences in dripping and seeping.

The way you go about building your components and the quality of the products you choose to do it with are critical factors in the quality of your end product. I'm not here to argue what anyone else may do, that is really nothing to me. I'm just trying to let you know that your seals don't have to leak. Another seemingly popular belief here is that they will become leakers after being driven a few miles. Use cheap seals and low quality lubes, you are probably 100% correct. Use the best quality stuff, be sure it has a proper mating surface to run against, install it correctly and they will run thousands of miles without leaks. Any seal is to be considered a normal wear item, should drips and seeps occur within months or a year after installation for instance; absolutely not if the job was done right using the best stuff. This is the point I'm trying to make in all this; now you can proceed with your project however you see fit; the bottom line is that you don't have to put up with leaks if you so choose not too. Honestly it really is not the "nature of the beast", but the quality of the materials and workmanship you apply during your build, and the lubricants you use.

[M37UK]

Isn't it amazing how a single word can mean one thing to one person but mean something totally different to another? No wonder foreigners have a hard time learning English!

Hey, are you speaking about us Scots again Lifer !!!!

Nae, Laddie! 'Tis the Welsh! They cannae seem to grasp the English tongue. You and I know that "Wales" is not spelt "P O W Y S," but ye cannae tell them that!

LOL!

[N1VSM]

Maybe refurbishment is a more accurate term than restoration?
"a condition superior to an earlier condition"

I usually explain that I am "rehabilitating" my truck, not restoring, refurbishing, or repurposing. Ok linguists, I know "repurposing" isn't (and shouldn't be!) a word, but it is a popular one here in the Berkshires: hippie, granola, environmentally sensitive, earth-n'-crunchy, diet of twigs & berries land.

[Murf]

How about this.... IF It's YOUR truck YOU can say anything you want to about it.

[Juan]

I've done a complete refurbish in my truck, not a resto since the tcase is the only part of the drivetrain that's original. Every seal/gasket was changed.
Now after 12 years (and a 150 miles daily commute in the last 5 years), it's leaking again, the t/case, the tranny (3053A), the engine (6.2L diesel) and the P/S system.
It's leaking but I don't care, it has to hold on until I can stop it and do a new refurbish with a new engine (6.5L TurboDiesel) and tranny (ZF S5-42). It has been the less maintained vehicle I've ever had and that's because of the job done for once, like Charles said.
Though Nothing is eternal.

[N1VSM]

Drip ... drip ... drip ... (poke poke poke) drip drip drip drip ( poke poke poke) dripdripdripdrip ( poke poke) gurgle gurgle GUSH - glut glut glug glug drip drip drip ... drip ... drip ...

Found it - faulty stopcock in a coolant line - my addition. I had this discission with the guy who rebuilt my engine regarding exactly what he did and did not repair. I wanted hm to know that I understood that If the water pump ( for example) konked out, that I wouldn't blame him. He checked out & used what I had, but didn't rebuild it Undrtanding what has and has not been fixed is also the nature of the beast.
All is on it's way to being better - I have my known issues ; and will tackle them one by one. Looking forwrd to being inthe Veterans day parade with a local cub scout troop.