Nature of the beast ...

[N1VSM]

I know, it comes with the hobby but ...
Why is it that the thing that leaks on my truck stops leaking as soon as I start trying to pinpoint the source of the leak? No - it isn't empty ...
After 5 (6?) years, and rebuilding too many parts to list (but not all of them), I've finally come up with a name and motto for my truck. He (yes, he) has been dubbed Mr. Murphy (after the famous laws). The motto, lifted from a cartoon, "What could possibly go wrong?"

[MSeriesRebuild]

What you stated is very typical unless you do 1 simple thing. Start at the front and work your way to the back totally rebuilding everything RIGHT and completely from top to bottom as you go. Only then will you be the owner of a dependable, enjoyable vehicle that will not nickel and dime you silly. Done this too many times, it is an absolute fact.

[k8icu]

Rule #1 of MV Ownership: MVs once restored are never done
Rule #2 of MV Ownership: You will spend more time under the truck than you will driving it.
Rule #3 of MV Ownership: All MVs are loud and dirty it is the nature of the beast.
Rule #4 of MV Ownership: When it rains your whipers will not work right and your windshield seal will leak onto your right foot.
Rule #5 of MV Ownership: MVs love to mark their territory!

I consider these truths to be just part of the charm of owning an MV. And even if you do a complete frame up restoration with all new parts etc you will still end up with something leaking. (refer to Rule #5)

[MSeriesRebuild]

Rule #1 of MV Ownership: MVs once restored are never done
Rule #2 of MV Ownership: You will spend more time under the truck than you will driving it.
Rule #3 of MV Ownership: All MVs are loud and dirty it is the nature of the beast.
Rule #4 of MV Ownership: When it rains your whipers will not work right and your windshield seal will leak onto your right foot.
Rule #5 of MV Ownership: MVs love to mark their territory!

I consider these truths to be just part of the charm of owning an MV. And even if you do a complete frame up restoration with all new parts etc you will still end up with something leaking. (refer to Rule #5)

Maybe for you, but I can't agree with the overwhelming majority of your above list. For example, we don't send trucks out that leak fluids if it is left up to us. It all goes back to doing it right however.

I'm not saying every truck that rolls out our doors is done to our recommended high quality standards. We do work according to customer specs, thus each customer gets and pays for what they specify. If what they specify will not stop the drips, well your #5 would apply. This hurts my feelings however because we are fully capable of sending out trucks without leaking components.

[Monkey Man]

I think you take the tongue in cheek comment there too seriously Charles, your Rebuilds plus others carried out by meticulous builders will indeed be leak checked and 100%, the majority of trucks out there sporting leather seals, shagged out seal sufaces, loose bolts, incorrect lube, worn out bushes and bearings will fit into the stated category. Pretty well all my M37 parts don't leak, after modern seal refits and a little tlc it's all good, the 318 Cui V8 However is another story and I have to get in and fix it some time soon when I can afford it, This is what I get for fitting a secondhand engine without first giving it a good once-over......now if I could only find a 273 or a 318 Magnum I would spend some more time fitting it up nicely I think

Best Regards - MM

[MSeriesRebuild]

I think you take the tongue in cheek comment there too seriously Charles, your Rebuilds plus others carried out by meticulous builders will indeed be leak checked and 100%, the majority of trucks out there sporting leather seals, shagged out seal sufaces, loose bolts, incorrect lube, worn out bushes and bearings will fit into the stated category. Pretty well all my M37 parts don't leak, after modern seal refits and a little tlc it's all good, the 318 Cui V8 However is another story and I have to get in and fix it some time soon when I can afford it, This is what I get for fitting a secondhand engine without first giving it a good once-over......now if I could only find a 273 or a 318 Magnum I would spend some more time fitting it up nicely I think

Best Regards - MM

Too seriously; Tony I would agree with you except for the last paragraph saying even on completely restored trucks from the frame up; there would still be leaking somewhere after completion. As I see his statements, he wasn't talking about shagged out trucks, but instead restored ones. That is a completely different catagory. My thought is if someone is spending what it cost to do a frame up these days, it simply shouldn't be leaking upon completion. I just don't understand why anyone would want to sport around a totally rebuilt/restored truck with oil running/dripping out of any component. These are my thoughts, everyone else is certainly entitled to their's also. Taking such issues seriously here has been a MAJOR factor in taking us to where we are in business today. Most of my postings here and elsewhere will reflect that, it has become daily routine for us.

[DJ]

Spending thousands of dollars and countless hours to get a perfect truck and never getting on the road or putting up with a few small leaks and having fun with it ? I'll put up with a little leakage. It happens with most all old things.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Spending thousands of dollars and countless hours to get a perfect truck and never getting on the road or putting up with a few small leaks and having fun with it ? I'll put up with a little leakage. It happens with most all old things.

Who said these trucks never get operated on the road? As far as I know, every project both large and small we have ever done is on the road being driven at least frequently. More than a few are driven daily. We have never done a high end museum piece.

This thing concerning leaks is really funny; leaks can most often be stopped without a big deal, and usually at a very reasonable cost, certainly it doesn't require expenditures of thousands of $. With the cost of even lower end lubricants being what they are these days; come on guys, who is the loser here? I don't believe it would be the owner who spends a few bucks taking care of the typical leaks; but instead the one who watches their hard earned $$ drip and contaminate the environment. The operator who has to top of lubricants frequently before they can drive with peace of mind is certainly the biggest loser, no question.

[cuz]

Obviously what is lacking here is an agreement on the definition of restoration!

From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/restoration

res·to·ra·tion noun \ˌres-tə-ˈrā-shən\
Definition of RESTORATION

1
: an act of restoring or the condition of being restored: as
a : a bringing back to a former position or condition : reinstatement <the restoration of peace>
b : restitution
c : a restoring to an unimpaired or improved condition <the restoration of a painting>
d : the replacing of missing teeth or crowns
2
: something that is restored; especially : a representation or reconstruction of the original form (as of a fossil or a building)

From http://www.dictionary.net/restoration

Restoration \Res`to*ra"tion\ (r?s`t?*r?"sh?n), n. [OE. restauracion, F. restauration, fr. L. restauratio. See Restore.]

1. The act of restoring or bringing back to a former place, station, or condition; the fact of being restored; renewal; reestablishment; as, the restoration of friendship between enemies; the restoration of peace after war. [1913 Webster]

Behold the different climes agree, Rejoicing in thy restoration. --Dryden. [1913 Webster]

2. The state of being restored; recovery of health, strength, etc.; as, restoration from sickness. [1913 Webster]

3. That which is restored or renewed. [1913 Webster]

I think this is the core of the idea:

The act of restoring or bringing back to a former place, station, or condition;

With this in mind restoration to a former condition may be factory new, as found in service or simply better then what one started with. I wouldn't presume to tell someone what they must restore to however if one restores to factory new then the leakers should be rather rare but still will occur occasionally. To assume that the act of restoration can only be performed to a perfect factory new defect free level is a somewhat arrogant assumption.

[DJ]

Charles, I never said your trucks didn't get driven on the road. What I meant that us little guys that have to work on our trucks as time permits would need many years to complete a ground up restoration. So we work when we can, fix when we have to ,and enjoy most all of it. And I dare say that is probably the majority of us. I speak from experience ,as I am in the procees of a MV frame up resto( in my opinion), and have two MV's maintained to be safe(with a few small leaks) and fun to drive.

[Lifer]

A guy I once knew restored Model A Fords for a living. His work was top notch, and most of the cars that rolled out of his shop were "better than new." One day, we were discussing the relative merits of "new" and "restored" cars. He said "Once you drive a new car out of the dealership with your name on the paperwork, it becomes a 'used' car, right?"

I had to agree.

"Same goes for a restored car," he said. "The minute you start the motor, things start to wear out. Just the tiniest bit, but they will show wear and the car isn't 'totally' restored any more."

That's putting a really fine point on it, but he was right. Wear and tear starts right away, and even the best parts installed during the renovation can fail unexpectedly. Just because it was perfect when it left the restoration shop doesn't mean it will stay that way.

Karl Benz invented the automobile one day, and his neighbor became the world's first mechanic the next.

[M37UK]

Maybe refurbishment is a more acurate term than restoration?
"a condition superior to an earlier condition"

[Lifer]

Isn't it amazing how a single word can mean one thing to one person but mean something totally different to another? No wonder foreigners have a hard time learning English!

[M37UK]

Isn't it amazing how a single word can mean one thing to one person but mean something totally different to another? No wonder foreigners have a hard time learning English!

Hey, are you speaking about us Scots again Lifer !!!!

[Oddjob]

Rule #1 of MV Ownership: MVs once restored are never done
Rule #2 of MV Ownership: You will spend more time under the truck than you will driving it.
Rule #3 of MV Ownership: All MVs are loud and dirty it is the nature of the beast.
Rule #4 of MV Ownership: When it rains your whipers will not work right and your windshield seal will leak onto your right foot.
Rule #5 of MV Ownership: MVs love to mark their territory!

I consider these truths to be just part of the charm of owning an MV. And even if you do a complete frame up restoration with all new parts etc you will still end up with something leaking. (refer to Rule #5)

Funny list... Though I think I could say that about any of the trucks I drive...

You know there's different ways of going about things... I was always under the school of thought during a rebuild if it's not broke don't fix it... and I have had fun chasing down tiny leaks on fresh paint... It's a lot easier when there's a little road grime to track down where it's coming from I can tell you that much...

Your bound to find you leak... it's just a matter of time... Wonder if there is a dye that can be added in like they do with the R134 to make it show up under black light... That would be tops...