Points Issues and Distributor Suggestions?

[Robert Lantz]

Have a 1962 M37 (Duh) and it's eating points way too often... WAY TOO OFTEN

Is the distributor sloppy, old, and needing replacement? WHERE CAN I GET ONE??? PLEASE I NEED MULTIPLE SOURCES HERE!!! I see them advertised from $375 to $195

Are the goofy blue 12 volt wires some kid installed on this the cause of the problem?

Could I have a bad coil sending way too much sparky goodness my way?

I just want this to be my daily driver and the points issues have sidelined this amazing rig...

[DJ]

Are you changing the condensor when you change the points?

[Robert Lantz]

No, I will change those together this time... Are any other issues I mentioned major red flags (12 volt wires, bad coil, old distributor, etc)???

[ZGjethro]

I sent my distributor off to M-series rebuild for a pointless conversion. I had some other work done there, but my truck runs great now. it is impossible to pinpoint what helped the most I am not espescially versed in setting the gaps and timing old ignition systems, so their work made it easy for me. Ditch that old stuff and get the new reliable components! I am sure there are a bunch of guys that say points and condensors work fine, but there is a reason no one puts them on modern vehicles. If you are worried about authenticity, you can restore it to original for a small cost.

[cuz]

I'm one of those if the $20 dollar points last 5,000 miles then why would I want to invest in $200 plus dollars of pointless distributor modifications.

The vendors that sell these Pertronics kits will tell you the standard hype. The claim improved performance because you do not need to adjust them any more. Well that's not improved performance. That is improved convenience. Unless you add a super coil or true electronic engine controls when you compare the Pertronics rig to a well maintained and properly set stock rig they are equal in performance. Performance that is defined as power, economy and ease of starting.

Don't be fooled. You can take two brand new distributors. Put Pertronics in one and stock points setup in the other. Put them in two identical M37's timed exactly alike and fire them up on a dyno and neither will out perform the other. The only thing saved here is the repetitive points maintenance.

Now if the points are way beyond your abilities and understanding then you have two choices. 1-Send the distributor to a shop and have them set it up with new points, condenser and repair as needed the rest of the distributor. 2-Send the distributor out for the installation of the Pertronics kit and the same inspect and repair as needed.

When that is done you now have to install that distributor and time it and this is done the same old fashion way with either setup.

So if you want to go either way then use honest reasoning in why you are going that way.

[Lifer]

One of the most common causes of burned points is leaving the ignition switch turned on. Many a "mechanic" has turned the switch on to check something that needed power to it and forgotten to turn it off when he finished. The first symptom of this error is usually a dead battery the next time he goes out to fire it up.

[Carter]

Don't be fooled. You can take two brand new distributors. Put Pertronics in one and stock points setup in the other. Put them in two identical M37's timed exactly alike and fire them up on a dyno and neither will out perform the other.

Wes, do you know anyone that has done dyno testing on the distributors so equipped, if so how about posting results for all to see or is this just your personal opinion with no facts to back it up

[cuz]

No I don't have access to a Dyno. Yes it is my personal opinion based on driving over 20 vehicles that I have owned both before and after the Pertronics and I am saying my experience shows no gain in performance. Just the relief of not having to service points often.

I haven't heard you ask the vendors and proponents of this conversion for their Dyno results!

I have and they don't have them either.

If these Dyno results are what you consider the only factual source that would mean the last answer is yes neither I nor they have the factual evidence suitable to use in court!

[MSeriesRebuild]

Don't be fooled. You can take two brand new distributors. Put Pertronics in one and stock points setup in the other. Put them in two identical M37's timed exactly alike and fire them up on a dyno and neither will out perform the other.

Wes, do you know anyone that has done dyno testing on the distributors so equipped, if so how about posting results for all to see or is this just your personal opinion with no facts to back it up

Great question Carter, thanks for asking it. While we anxiously await the answer, and I'm sure it will be intrestingly one sided, let me say this.

I have built many a distributor from the bare housing up, I build according to customer specs. If they want points, fine by me, we build them back to original new specs. If they want to upgrade to the more reliable lower maintenance all electronic, which is the smarter way to go, I can make that happen also. While the all electronic is more cost initially, it will last longer, keep the unit functioning on the money for a way longer time because less wear happens at a much slower pace, and there is no moving parts except for the shaft rotating.

Let me elaborate on the why's of what I stated above. When points are used, spring pressure is constantly applied to the cam on the shaft which puts pressure on the bushings as a result. You would be amazed at how much faster shaft and bushing wear occurs in a distributor with points installed because of this spring issue. The reason a unit that runs the electronic module with no spring pressure is way more efficient for a way longer time is that tolerances stay close to a perfect spec far longer. The only normal wear parts to maintain are the inner cap and rotor, and the only real routine maintenance is to periodically fill the elbow with oil to keep the top bushing lubricated. As we all know there are a number of routine maintenance issues with the old points systems that you have to stay on top of. Fire Dept trucks that need to roll reliably when duty calls was what sold me on the elctronic modules. On fire trucks we upkeep, unexpected points failure had been an issue more than once. When these electronic units came along, and we built the distributors up using these units, presto, no more issues. Easier starting engines, noticably better running, especially in cold, periodic maintenance schedules were stretched out to much longer intervals without issues.

I've been accused of pushing these units for the money, well I can't keep uninformed folks from thinking what they want too. Truth is I make more money off the units that are running points. Simply put, the maintenance will for sure roll around much more often in these units, and major builds like replacement of shafts and bushings are more frequent. The extra initial cost of all electronic pays for itself in less maintenance cost and worry about reliability quickly. Those who have experienced the result are sold on it. Those who refuse to use it except as an issue to talk trash about, well being uninformed and refusing to give the newer products a chance will always hide the benefits and keep a person in the dark. A victim of being set in their ways is all I can say. A line I heard years ago comes to mind, "try it, you might just like it." The best way to test anything is real world over a period of time, here we have had opportunity to do that and see the benefits, thus I know I'm making truthful comments about the all electronic units. Others who refuse to try it, yet can't wait for opportunity to run it down, like you can read in an earlier post in this thread, well we all know that drill.

[Carter]

I haven't heard you ask the vendors and proponents of this conversion for their Dyno results!

I have and they don't have them either.

If these Dyno results are what you consider the only factual source that would mean the last answer is yes neither I nor they have the factual evidence suitable to use in court!

You are the one who brought up dyno testing so I ask you Wes. Dyno testing may or may not be the only factual evidence suitable to use in court, however who was asking about court?

I read your comments about electronic ignition and still have only your words on the subject which is all you seem to be able to offer. I'm not trying to put you in a bind, just want to know from where you got the information you hand out a supposed facts. Maybe next time, "I Think that..." would be a good way to start your answer.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Have a 1962 M37 (Duh) and it's eating points way too often... WAY TOO OFTEN

Is the distributor sloppy, old, and needing replacement? WHERE CAN I GET ONE??? PLEASE I NEED MULTIPLE SOURCES HERE!!! I see them advertised from $375 to $195

Are the goofy blue 12 volt wires some kid installed on this the cause of the problem?

Could I have a bad coil sending way too much sparky goodness my way?

I just want this to be my daily driver and the points issues have sidelined this amazing rig...

Robert it's hard to say what issues you have in play that may be contributing to your frequent points replacement since you did make it clear that some type of modification is in place. I would suggest at this point to get the system back to basic stock configuration and diagnose what else if anything may be needed. Complete rebuilds are not that involved if it is needed, so your issue should not be a big deal to correct even worst case. We offer rebuild/repair service if you need it, feel free to call us or email via the website below if we can help. It's fine if you need to call just to ask questions also, happy to help.

[M37UK]

Anyway Charles, hows my order for the electronic ignition progressing?

If there is an upgrade out there that improves safety, reduces maintenance, makes my truck last longer or gives better performance, I am all for it .................

my 2 pennies worth.

Stu

[MSeriesRebuild]

Anyway Charles, hows my order for the electronic ignition progressing?

If there is an upgrade out there that improves safety, reduces maintenance, makes my truck last longer or gives better performance, I am all for it .................

my 2 pennies worth.

Stu

Got it in process, my sister had sinus surgery today, my small amount of spare time has been cut to 0 spare time all of a sudden with this situation added to the mix. Will be in touch. Charles

[outsider]

Make sure when you change the points you change the condensor also because if it isn't working properly it will burn the points!

Points are neither rocket science or expensive. For less than $20.00 you can change the points and condensor with a screw driver and a feeler gage (and in a pinch you don't need to use the feeler gage) in less than 5 minutes. Now if your electronic system pukes neither 5 minutes or $20.00 will probably fix the problem. I have several pieces of equipment with both systems, but I prefer the simplisity of the point systems it's all what you are comfortable with.

About a month ago I took my Halftrack to pick my kids up from their last day of school. Well halfway there the HT just quit. After a quick check to determine I had no spark I grabbed a new set of points and a condensor out of the glove box, stuck them in (without gaping the points) she fired right up and I still made it into town in time to pick the kids up. So if you are going to run point style systems always keep a spare set of points and a condensor in the glove box. I'm sure the problem was the condensor was bad, but I always change them as a pair. The moral of this story is if you run point systems alway have spares handy!

Steve

[cuz]

You are the one who brought up dyno testing so I ask you Wes. Dyno testing may or may not be the only factual evidence suitable to use in court, however who was asking about court?

I read your comments about electronic ignition and still have only your words on the subject which is all you seem to be able to offer. I'm not trying to put you in a bind, just want to know from where you got the information you hand out a supposed facts. Maybe next time, "I Think that..." would be a good way to start your answer.

1- I like the Pertronix system. I have used it or another brand for many years. I do not question it's usefulness as a substitute for the older point system which requires more attention. I question statements that declare it a performance booster which I know it is not from my experience with it's use. You will notice since the last time this topic was scrutinized even Charles only touts it's improvement in serviceability.

2-I suggested if anyone wanted to satisfy a need for a final qualified answer they could put both systems to the Dyno at an independent lab and that as far as I am concerned I believe the result would be no improvement in HP or fuel economy. I likened the court system to "final qualified answer".

3-My personal credentials for the opinions I offer here are as follows.
A- I am a free man and over 21 years of age (62 to be exact). A veteran with 24 years service.
B-I have wrenched on and raced cars since 1957. I have been a professional mechanic since 1964.
C- I had my first MV ride May 30 1954. Bought my first MV June 1970. Have owned MV's off and on since.

"I Think that..." would be a good way to start your answer

Actually when I only think something that is what I usually preface my opinion with. In this case I knew what I wanted to say.