Useing the flag as a back drop on Ebay !

Tom @ Snake River · Post by **Tom @ Snake River** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:07 pm

Some guy named Ken in Wis is useing a flag as a back drop to sell militaria on Ebay. I hate to play "flag police" All that was showing was the red and white stripes and I told him it was not appropiate to use the US flag as a backdrop.
His reply - "A flag US, what I see in the ad is a piece of cloth with red and white stripes "
I again told him it might turn people off, and this was his reply.
"
I UNDERSTAND THE FLAG ISSUE, BUT IF LOOK CLOSE AROUND AMERICA IS USED COMERCIALLY EVERY DAY.THERE ARE OTHER FLAGS IN THE WORLD THAT USE THE SAME STRIPES. NOTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT MY SALES, I HIT RECORD SALES IN NOV. ---KEN IN WIS. E-BAY 10 YRS.

Am I being out of place ? ? ?

MSeriesRebuild · Post by **MSeriesRebuild** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:53 pm

Tom, you aren't out of place at all.

It's very sad how many Americans view the $ as God and all important above everything else these days. This guy obviously could absolutely care less about your and other faithful American's viewpoint. The flag, why it may not be appropriate to use it in this fashion, or anything else but sales is immaterial to him. He only notices if he see's $$$, he feels that using the flag as a back drop is boosting sales; and everyone else should just be quiet while he smiles all the way to the bank. A pitiful state of affairs the US has fallen into.

cuz · Post by **cuz** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:38 pm

If it was actually a complete US Flag then I may take issue. We can exercise our right to freedom of expression as well as he can. If it is not displayed IAW the rules then he is wrong.

If it is nothing more then red/white striped bunting then that has been used by millions of folks for ornamentation and sales backdrops for years then he has a right under our constitution. Just like the red/white/blue US built car ads of the 50's and 60's.

So the bottom line is can you see a complete US flag in his ads?

Master Yota · Post by **Master Yota** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:28 pm

I would tend to think that this isn't as bad as it may seem. Now I'm not an American, I'm Canadian, and as such we tend to celibrate our patriotism a little differently up here, but we share many common ideals.

The American flag is one of the most reproduced symbols in the world, and has been associated with prosperity and commerce the world over since the country was in its infancy. Its kind of hard to promote the "Buy USA" mantra without showing it off. I'm sure we've all seen a US flag hanging in a shop window or displayed on a business wall at some point or another, and never given it a second thought. This gentlemens shop window just happens to be your computer screen.
I don't really think is would be an issue worth worrying about unless he's selling anti-American propaganda. That would be a different matter.

MSeriesRebuild · Post by **MSeriesRebuild** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:11 pm

Good points in all these reply's, well taken. We too display the flag in support of the troops, etc. We don't use it as a selling point however.

In the case of the gentleman Tom brought to question, it was his reply to Tom's question that turned me off. He seemed only interested that he had hit record sales and apparently thinks the flag display has helped bring that too him.

I'm sure many differing points of view could certainly be applied here. The down side many have made known is from folks who have loved ones in military service fighting wars right now. These folks in a large part view it as the situation being commercialized as a selling point to make $$ on the backs of the ones who serve. One can see how it could be offensive to these people who are there fighting to preserve the freedom of all Americans.

Some seem to just disregard the feelings of others for almost any reason if the cash is coming their way. On the other hand, if this seller was donating a portion of his profits to one or more of several very worthy charities such as Wounded Warriors Projects for example, a totally different light would be shed on the whole situation.

Tom @ Snake River · Post by **Tom @ Snake River** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:32 pm

Well, I will concede on the particular fellow. I will now agree that as long as red and white stripes are displayed and non of the blue field, that it will qualify as "bunting". However I would apply the same respect to our allies in not ever displaying the Canadian flag, ect. in a manner that is disrepectful or to make a buck.
Like Charles said, due to his reply that the almighty dollar reins supreme, I will call it a day and fail to appoligize to him. Tom

cuz · Post by **cuz** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:25 pm

I read Ken's reply several times. I understand what he said is in reply to:

I again told him it might turn people off, and this was his reply.

Here the statement implies that the colors may turn some people off which I interpret as lost sales from turning these people off.

I UNDERSTAND THE FLAG ISSUE, BUT IF LOOK CLOSE AROUND AMERICA IS USED COMERCIALLY EVERY DAY.THERE ARE OTHER FLAGS IN THE WORLD THAT USE THE SAME STRIPES. NOTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT MY SALES, I HIT RECORD SALES IN NOV. ---KEN IN WIS. E-BAY 10 YRS.

Here I interpret a feeling he has that he feels it hasn't turned anyone off because his sales are quite good.

It is human nature to form a first immediate opinion even subconsiously then it becomes very hard to keep an open mind to the rest of the impressions we have during that encounter.

In this example we have seen what initially impressed us as an unsavory use of our flag. Later under more intense scrutiny we determine it was only red/white bunting not a flag but now we have raised the warning flag on this particular despots attitude and his name will live in infamy forever. Seems a bit unfair to me.

A very simple example of this is "How many times have you driven past a car lot that sells US Built cars and seen little US flags attached to each antenna?" How many times did we pull in and run the lot owner out of town on rail?

We brag on being a free country full of folks that have freedoms very few other countries have. We in accordance with the law allow folks to burn our flag here, hang it upside down and etc. We are also a representative capitalist republic. We put God, Our Presidents and our flags on our currency. I see huge US flags flown on tall masts by porn store owners. They are legal, by the way.

I would rather believe that Ken has the best interests of our country at heart and loves and respects our flag and is so proud of our colors and our freedoms that he chooses to use them as a backdrop for his capitalist adventures in our capitalist republic.

I did my 22 years and I have no grief with his display or the rights of people to take things we treasure to such extremes. I have always believed that patriotism is in our hearts. We feel, and breath it every day and part of that feeling and breathing is compassion and understanding of the rights of others.

As for our American Fighting Person, well they know where the patriotism is in the policing of the world and economical preservation of the capitalist needs of our republic by applying force where other folks wish to harm us and they know why they do it and for whom they are doing it.

How did I feel coming home 4 times through California airports and getting the nasty treatment and seeing the pot heads and bums burning flags? I felt great because had I not served, or had my Dad, his two Brothers and their Dad not served those poor idiots would have been getting gunned down in the streets without ever seeing a courtroom. Did I like what I saw? NO. Did I understand it? YES

Master Yota · Post by **Master Yota** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:41 am

Well put Wes, well put.

Those of you in the lower 48 are lucky in some respects as the design of your flag is rather difficult to portray in an ignorant manner. I've driven past a store in my town several times that sells smoking novelties and such and observed our flag hanging from the window. It was only recently as I waited for a light to change that I noticed it wasn't a Maple leat represented in the middle of the flag, but a red Canabis plant leaf. While on some level that may be amusing(namely the level of political satirists and cartoonists) the nature of the store didn't give me much cause for concern.

It is easier to ignore that flippant display and later give thanks to the people in the service on both sides of the border for giving us the freedom to be so tolerant. Without those dedicated volunteers it would be much more tragic to be brainwashed and/or forced to acknowledge some gestapo regime and the symbols of its propaganda.

I do however draw the line at dragging the flag on the ground, or burning it. Thats just not acceptable.

Lifer · Post by **Lifer** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:23 pm

I'll risk being called the "flag police." Won't be the first time,

Anyway, using the flag as a backdrop in order to "guilt" people into buying the merchandise displayed with it is not specifically prohibited by the Flag Code (as I understand it), but it is certainly in poor taste. In my opinion, and we all know what that's worth, the only time the flag should be used as part of an advertisement is if you're in the business of selling flags!