Home 
The advantage is I would have to know whether or not to raise my insurance coverage on the rig 
I never kept track of the labor, but I would guess about 6-8 hours a week x 4 years?
THE SUM OF ALL PARTS...
Moderators: Cal_Gary, T. Highway, Monkey Man, robi
-
HingsingM37
- 1SG
- Posts: 1458
- Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:43 am
- Location: North Carolina
THE SUM OF ALL PARTS...
Well gang, when I first got into this project I read David Ahl's article in which he tallies up the real cost of restoring an M37 to like new conditon. When I looked at his totals I thoought he was way off. Now that I have a stack of parts receipts nearly two inches thick, maybe not. I have a choice to tally these up or leave it as a mystery figure? Now the advantage of not knowing is that I can then honestly tell the wife "I don't know how much I invested" The advantage is I would have to know whether or not to raise my insurance coverage on the rig
I never kept track of the labor, but I would guess about 6-8 hours a week x 4 years?
The advantage is I would have to know whether or not to raise my insurance coverage on the rig I never kept track of the labor, but I would guess about 6-8 hours a week x 4 years?
David
HingsingM37
1958 M37B1
1968 M101A1 Trailer
MVPA# 33078
"Do Not Take Counsel of Your Fears"
General George S. Patton Jr.
"Those who pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not".
HingsingM37
1958 M37B1
1968 M101A1 Trailer
MVPA# 33078
"Do Not Take Counsel of Your Fears"
General George S. Patton Jr.
"Those who pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not".
yes
I total mine up so I can see how expensive a hobby this is if I am tempted to get another M37 it helps put the brakes on. However I am working on my 20 year project now and with inflation in some ways it makes the numbers irrelevant after a couple of years. Having a 20 year project spreads the cost out so it isn't real bad. FYI - I have an M37 that was a 7 year project. My current one - someone gave me two trucks and I am trying to make one while selling excess stuff or trading parts for work I need.
I'd suggest listing type 0f restoration, date of purchase, price and name of part. This will allow those you give the list too several ways to compute their cost estimates.
Last edited by cuz on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Wes K
wsknettl@centurytel.net
54 M37, 66 M101, 45MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ5, 46 T3-C
MVPA 22099
Disclaimer: Any data posted is for general info only and may not be M37 specific or meet with the approval of some esteemed gurus.
wsknettl@centurytel.net
54 M37, 66 M101, 45MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ5, 46 T3-C
MVPA 22099
Disclaimer: Any data posted is for general info only and may not be M37 specific or meet with the approval of some esteemed gurus.
-
MSeriesRebuild
- 1SG
- Posts: 2832
- Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:35 am
- Location: Norwood, NC
- Contact:
Well fellows, I could shed some real life numbers on parts cost that are accurate and right up to date. I won't do that here for obvious reasons, customer's privacy for one, and mainly because of the few here that would immediately call me a liar til eternity if I would play the game. Parts cost has jumped up astronomically in the past year or so, here is just one example, differential bearings to rebuild 1 unit have jumped from $500 to over $600 presently in the past few months.
I will tell you this right up front, I've read David Ahl's summary of his so called restoration several times; as far as restoring his truck to like new condition, he wasn't even in the ball park of doing that, so his cost was way less than real world because he actually did a very minimal job on the project. Understand that I'm not discussing his book or my opinion of it. just what he did to the truck and called it restoration. When he finished it, it was sold to a guy who called me a short time later saying the engine had blown. The ones of you that read about the project likely remember the engine was just fine according to Ahl's reference and needed nothing but running, this is NEVER the case by the way. The buyer told me he over paid for the truck thinking it had to be the best one around as he had followed the rebuild info printed in Military Vehicles Magazine during the project. He said when he spoke with me the truck was parked out in the weeds on a vacant lot, since he paid so much for the truck, he couldn't afford to invest more in rebuilding the engine and a number of other issues that had come up as a result of needing no attention in Ahl's view point. Long story short, doing a "restoration" according to Ahl's strategy will assure one thing. You will never get finished and when you think you are; you will just have gotten far enough to have a truck that will nickel and dime you to death. Most owners who approach it this way wind up getting totally discouraged and getting rid of the truck because they eventually feel there is just no way.
Reality is this, the oldest M37's are now 59 years old. Realize body and paint issues are an appearance thing, has nothing to do with dependability, safety, whether your truck is road worthy, etc. Going through everything mechanical, electrical, and safety items such as steering and brakes is a must if you expect a dependable, safe, truck that you can jump in, start up, and go. All areas of a 50+ year old vehicle will have issues, some will be minor, some will be extensive. All components are typically very rebuildable. It takes time and money to do it. Let me add this, we frequently get callers inquiring about parts, service or both who feel that since they bought a truck for $1,500, they should be able to do whatever it needs to get it to tip-top condition for less than the purchase price. How many times have I heard that famous line, "that's more than I paid for the truck." This mindset is TOTALLY unrealistic, doesn't matter if you are just seeking parts, in actuality, you are living in a bubble. You can take this to the bank, you will never have a dependable truck until you crack open all components for a visual inspection and ADDRESS the issues that need attention. Overlooking issues like rust pitting on bearing races, rollers, and seal mating surfaces, no matter how minor you think it may be will bring about only one thing; FAILURE at some point. At that point, it will likely bring down much more with it than a simple bearing replacement that would have fixed it in the beginning. There is only 1 way to do something right, open it up, clean and inspect with a fine tooth comb, taking care of the issues while you are there; addressing it any other way will insure a return trip into the component which will bring even more expense and vast amounts of frustration along with it.
Bottom line, David Ahl did not check his dictionary to find out what restoration meant before he started, he looked up modest fixer-upper instead; you will be much happier, and enjoy your project a lot more if you don't follow his guidelines to making the same mistakes he did. Did you ever wonder why his book has been out of print for many years now? The title called it a restoration guide, in reality it is more a guide to bringing out future issues coming back to bite; actually said little about what is needed to build a reliable M37.
David, (the author of this thread) estimated his time at 8 hours a week for 4 years. That is 416 hours per year or 1,664 hours over 4 years. Our labor rate is currently $60 per hour, that times 1,664 hours equals out to $99,840. Now I have no way of knowing how the time required for us to do what David did in this amount of time would compare. I am saying if we had spent 1,664 hours working on your truck, you would be just $160 shy of a $100,000 investment. If this sounds high to you, try your luck at running a shop for less; I would certainly be interested in hearing the outcome.
I will tell you this right up front, I've read David Ahl's summary of his so called restoration several times; as far as restoring his truck to like new condition, he wasn't even in the ball park of doing that, so his cost was way less than real world because he actually did a very minimal job on the project. Understand that I'm not discussing his book or my opinion of it. just what he did to the truck and called it restoration. When he finished it, it was sold to a guy who called me a short time later saying the engine had blown. The ones of you that read about the project likely remember the engine was just fine according to Ahl's reference and needed nothing but running, this is NEVER the case by the way. The buyer told me he over paid for the truck thinking it had to be the best one around as he had followed the rebuild info printed in Military Vehicles Magazine during the project. He said when he spoke with me the truck was parked out in the weeds on a vacant lot, since he paid so much for the truck, he couldn't afford to invest more in rebuilding the engine and a number of other issues that had come up as a result of needing no attention in Ahl's view point. Long story short, doing a "restoration" according to Ahl's strategy will assure one thing. You will never get finished and when you think you are; you will just have gotten far enough to have a truck that will nickel and dime you to death. Most owners who approach it this way wind up getting totally discouraged and getting rid of the truck because they eventually feel there is just no way.
Reality is this, the oldest M37's are now 59 years old. Realize body and paint issues are an appearance thing, has nothing to do with dependability, safety, whether your truck is road worthy, etc. Going through everything mechanical, electrical, and safety items such as steering and brakes is a must if you expect a dependable, safe, truck that you can jump in, start up, and go. All areas of a 50+ year old vehicle will have issues, some will be minor, some will be extensive. All components are typically very rebuildable. It takes time and money to do it. Let me add this, we frequently get callers inquiring about parts, service or both who feel that since they bought a truck for $1,500, they should be able to do whatever it needs to get it to tip-top condition for less than the purchase price. How many times have I heard that famous line, "that's more than I paid for the truck." This mindset is TOTALLY unrealistic, doesn't matter if you are just seeking parts, in actuality, you are living in a bubble. You can take this to the bank, you will never have a dependable truck until you crack open all components for a visual inspection and ADDRESS the issues that need attention. Overlooking issues like rust pitting on bearing races, rollers, and seal mating surfaces, no matter how minor you think it may be will bring about only one thing; FAILURE at some point. At that point, it will likely bring down much more with it than a simple bearing replacement that would have fixed it in the beginning. There is only 1 way to do something right, open it up, clean and inspect with a fine tooth comb, taking care of the issues while you are there; addressing it any other way will insure a return trip into the component which will bring even more expense and vast amounts of frustration along with it.
Bottom line, David Ahl did not check his dictionary to find out what restoration meant before he started, he looked up modest fixer-upper instead; you will be much happier, and enjoy your project a lot more if you don't follow his guidelines to making the same mistakes he did. Did you ever wonder why his book has been out of print for many years now? The title called it a restoration guide, in reality it is more a guide to bringing out future issues coming back to bite; actually said little about what is needed to build a reliable M37.
David, (the author of this thread) estimated his time at 8 hours a week for 4 years. That is 416 hours per year or 1,664 hours over 4 years. Our labor rate is currently $60 per hour, that times 1,664 hours equals out to $99,840. Now I have no way of knowing how the time required for us to do what David did in this amount of time would compare. I am saying if we had spent 1,664 hours working on your truck, you would be just $160 shy of a $100,000 investment. If this sounds high to you, try your luck at running a shop for less; I would certainly be interested in hearing the outcome.
Last edited by MSeriesRebuild on Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:21 am, edited 6 times in total.
Charles Talbert
www.mseriesrebuild.com
www.mseriesrebuild.com
I think everyone here will agree with Charles assessment of the Ahl restoration. It was not a frame off restoration nor a total restoration but in his mind it was some kind of restoration. Perhaps restored to drivable would fit.
The main issue in this thread is weather or not David should document his overall restoration costs. This would be nice information if presented in an understandable format and posted to the files/archives section of this web site.
An anonymous list of overall professional restoration costs would also be usefull in this topic file. No customer data needs to be leaked to the public. Just a simple recollection of overall parts cost/labor cost and type of restoration is all that's needed to develop a rough idea of what costs would be for different levels of restoration and by both professional and amateur restorers. I think some honesty here would actually drive many would be amateur resto's to the professional shop.
The main issue in this thread is weather or not David should document his overall restoration costs. This would be nice information if presented in an understandable format and posted to the files/archives section of this web site.
An anonymous list of overall professional restoration costs would also be usefull in this topic file. No customer data needs to be leaked to the public. Just a simple recollection of overall parts cost/labor cost and type of restoration is all that's needed to develop a rough idea of what costs would be for different levels of restoration and by both professional and amateur restorers. I think some honesty here would actually drive many would be amateur resto's to the professional shop.
Wes K
wsknettl@centurytel.net
54 M37, 66 M101, 45MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ5, 46 T3-C
MVPA 22099
Disclaimer: Any data posted is for general info only and may not be M37 specific or meet with the approval of some esteemed gurus.
wsknettl@centurytel.net
54 M37, 66 M101, 45MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ5, 46 T3-C
MVPA 22099
Disclaimer: Any data posted is for general info only and may not be M37 specific or meet with the approval of some esteemed gurus.
i think i would total it just for the ins ..If something happens to the truck and it is not ins for enough to cover it you will be pissed ..The ins company just look at them as a old truck but that is just my opinion..I have mine put as 10,000 value and it is not restored but complete and not rusted..I look at if i had to replace it with another truck of the same caliber what would it cost me..As charles said parts are going to get more expesive
Just My Opinon
I increased my insurance value to ten grand last year, spent more for sure!
Bruce,
1953 M-37 w/ow
Retired Again
Keep Em Rollin'
VMVA
1953 M-37 w/ow
Retired Again
Keep Em Rollin'
VMVA
I vote NO
Here is why, I made that mistake with a 72 Triumph MC that I have on Craigslist right now. I never thought I would need to sell it and went all out on the resto. My receipts total $8700 not counting the maybe 600 hours I spent. The bike is listed for $4800 and I'll have to take less than that if I want to sell it.
For most this is hobby and a type of relaxation(at times). I don't think you can put a price tag on it. For you fisherman,do you keep tally of every aspect of that hobby,boat , gas ,truck to pull boat,beer to catch fish,worms,poles,clothes ,special boots,special gloves ,etc,etc. Do what you love,love what you do,long as babies got shoes and mama got a house, do it.
DJ
DJ
Try not to miss the real point here. It is not to score a restoration. It is to offer others an Idea of just how much a restoration will cost before they commit to one. Labor hasn't been counted because the labor is the joy of the resto and the cost of parts and services is the pain of the resto. We haven't asked for a final value on a resto. All that has been asked for here is the cost of parts and services.
Wes K
wsknettl@centurytel.net
54 M37, 66 M101, 45MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ5, 46 T3-C
MVPA 22099
Disclaimer: Any data posted is for general info only and may not be M37 specific or meet with the approval of some esteemed gurus.
wsknettl@centurytel.net
54 M37, 66 M101, 45MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ5, 46 T3-C
MVPA 22099
Disclaimer: Any data posted is for general info only and may not be M37 specific or meet with the approval of some esteemed gurus.
Every time my fiancee gripes about my "expensive car hobby" I remind her that living in general is expensive, so, we should go end it all... just think of the money we could save by kicking the bucket...
I have somewhere north of 7500 and somewhere south of 10K into mine so far (this time around... thats not counting the dana swap, or the previous 360, or any of that nonsense). That, of course, is also not counting tools, or disposables, like electricity, gas to go get parts, and, of course, my time. I don't count my time, as it is a labor of love.
I have somewhere north of 7500 and somewhere south of 10K into mine so far (this time around... thats not counting the dana swap, or the previous 360, or any of that nonsense). That, of course, is also not counting tools, or disposables, like electricity, gas to go get parts, and, of course, my time. I don't count my time, as it is a labor of love.
heh, been dating for almost 8 years... if she was gonna get rid of me, she woulda done it by now...
I agree with her to a point, dropping so much $$ on the truck gets old after a while, but, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel coming...
Problem is, being an engineer, I can't leave anything alone. Why leave it stock when you can tweak it and reallyscrew it up!
for instance, I was contemplating rockwell toploaders from an M35 last week... lucky for me, they wont physically fit without some serious modifications, even by my standards!
I agree with her to a point, dropping so much $$ on the truck gets old after a while, but, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel coming...
Problem is, being an engineer, I can't leave anything alone. Why leave it stock when you can tweak it and reallyscrew it up!
for instance, I was contemplating rockwell toploaders from an M35 last week... lucky for me, they wont physically fit without some serious modifications, even by my standards!