Need help finding TDC

[signsup]

I'm all messed up and get get her started again. Was running rough and then died and won't start. Replaced points, condenser, rotor and cap. Can't get her to fire on starting fluid. Trying to find TDC so I can make sure my distributor is in the right position and my rotor and wires are in the correct position.
I have some marks on the pully like a T and a zero and a pointer tab spot welded to my timing cover. But when I put a test light on #1 spark plug and line up the timing marks, I do not get it to glow even when adjusting my distributor cap, very little adjustment allowed.
When I crank the engine, the test light blinks every time #1 gets a zap from the dist., but it is not in sync with the pully. I have a feeling maybe a Bubba replacement pully.
When I remove #1 plug to try to get the piston to TEC with a dowel or straw, I only have access to one valve. So I'm guessing when #1 is at TEC to get my dist, rotor and wires to the correct position.

Any help GREATLY appreciated.

I think it may be a 230 engine, but it is a military block and the head is 23 inches long. I've got a WWII autolite distributor. The points were set on at .20 thousands. I am injecting starting fluid through a port on the inlet manifold to take the carb out of the equation. Cannot get her to fire.

[just me]

There is a plug in the head of the number six hole for finding TDC. Remove plug and use wood dowel. 6&1 come up together.

[j mccormick]

With the civilian type distributor it is possible to have replaced it 180 degrees off. Take number 1 plug out and crank it over until you feel it coming up on compression, then remove the plug above the piston on number 6 cylinder and use the dowel to find top dead center. That will have number 1 cylinder where it needs to be to fire, so then install the distributor so that the rotor is pointing to number 1 plug wire. Joe

PS: Mark the front pulley when you find TDC with the dowel.

[signsup]

Did not know about the plug over #6, we removed the spark plug and got the same valve set up, which makes perfect sense. Also we did not know that if we took #6 to TDC that it would be compression or exhaust. So we'll do what last poster suggested, get #1 close and then #6 with dowel to TDC and then go from there. For the money, we are also entertaining new coil. It's 12v, not a big expense and we are not happy with the inconsistency we see in the brightness of the test light and the spark at the points is intermittent. So, TDC and new coil and will report back.

Thanks for this. Yes, when we find TDC, we will file groove in pully for future timing issues.

[Cal_Gary]

Bubba could have also turned the oil pump on install for some reason, thus making any old Cylinder #1 and throwing off your pulley readings.
Gary

[signsup]

If I get #6 to TDC and shoot air into the plug hole, will I be able to hear where the air goes and determine if I am on compression or exhaust that way? Will I hear air come out the carb or vacuum port if I'm on compression? Will I hear air come out the exhaust if I am on exhaust? Or will both valves be close? I don't have the correct hand crank for this pully nut, looks like it will not take a socket, so I'm going to have to just keep bumping the engine over until I hit it just right.

[signsup]

OK, it's gonna be one of THOSE days. Removed plug over #6 and tried using length of strong bailing wire, can't get through the head at the bottom of the plug. Bounced the starter around a few times, and nothing getting through this plug. So, either a lot of carbon or scaly rust but I don't want to orce anything. I'll get my son to help this afternoon and feel if we get blow by or can feel compression coming out this plug hole. If not, on to Plan B. Presume I can pull the spark plug on #1 and feel compression coming and going and just try to time maximum compression and we should be close enough to TDC to make sure plugs wires and rotor and on #1.

[signsup]

Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Is there any reason why I cannot attempt to open up my #6 inspection plug? The small bolt is removed, but I cannot insert a small rod, it bottoms out at the end of the head. I bump the starter and no difference in the rod access, so I'm guessing corrosion or carbon clogged in the access threaded hole. I'm considering go at it with a small punch or awl and breaking through so I can use this port for TDC determination. Presume anything that falls down into the cylinder head will be conbusted and not metal shavings, I'm not drilling or tapping.

Any strong advice to not attempt this? Reward worth the risk?

[signsup]

I'm getting frustrated.
Today's efforts:
Installed new coil. Now have new coil, points, set to .30 thousands, new condenser, new rotor, new cap.
Used probe to get #6 to TDC on comp and then set rotor and wires to be on #6 wire.
No firing
We get spark on spark plug tester in a regular firing pattern on #1 where we have left it connect this whole time.
We use starting fluid injected through vacuum wiper port on rear of intake manifold, so carb and governor are out of the equation

I then had my son, wearing thick rubber gloves hold the distributor cap on loosely with no clips connected and rotate the cap around while I pressed the starter rod until we got firing, then we would figure out how to connect to that firing point. We rotated the cap as far around as the wires would allow and then removed the cap and placed it back on 180 degrees around and repeated the process. We feel that we have allowed to rotor to connect to every wire and cannot get firing. We do get backfire, so spark is getting into cylinders at some point, just not at the right time.

Everything is rotating, no unusual noise, do not think we have a timing chain issue or broken crankshaft or anything major.Truck was ing and then ran rough and then died with no unusual noise or smoking or backfiring. Unable to get fired since that time.

I'm at a loss as to what to do or investigate next. Looking for mobil old school mechanic. No GA MVPA club members any more mechanically inclined than I am to call upon.

Suggestions?

[Cal_Gary]

Sorry Signsup,
I've no experience with the #6 inspection plug mentioned. I'd still pursue TDC on #1 and start there. Also, you mentioned your point gap being 30 thousandths-to me that's a bit wide. I don't have a TM handy to confirm the correct gap but I think I set mine at 18 thousandths when I installed my new civvy distributor. I'd also be certain of the wires being attached to the correct plugs from the cap, and also make sure you are working with the correct rotation on your distributor. I had an old Ford that wouldn't run for that reason-counterclockwise rotation versus clockwise. Once I figured that out it fired right up!

Don't give up or grab a BFH-add your location to your profile-perhaps another forum member is close by and can lend a hand.
Keep us posted, thanks,
Gary

[signsup]

Type on the gap, .20 is what we were told by Vintage Powerwagons when we got the points and condenser.
We will double check all the obvious items again, but when we turned the cap all the way around and still did not get anything firing, it's got us baffled.
We are located in the Atlanta, GA area. I'm President of the GA MVPA and know of no one off the top of my head, but might reach out via blast email to club members and pick their brains. The BFH is close by, but I wouldn't know where to hit it to do the most damage. I'll work on seat frames while this is being pondered.

[signsup]

Just verified that rotor is turning clockwise, which is correct. Talked to local mechanic who suggested compression test. If compression is low or non existant on all cylinders, he suspects the engine has jumped timing. Also try the six cylinder TDC wire and then shoot air into #1. If TDC on compression, it should push the piston down or blow air through the intake manifold or carb. If on exhaust, out the exhaust. If neither, or both, we probably have jumped timing.
So, that is the weekends project. Investigate further and I have a feeling this is the case as I don't kow why else we could never get it to fire with full rotation of distributor cap and wires in correct sequence.

Oh, boy, not looking good for early season debut.

[signsup]

Matt called today from Vintage Powerwagons and is going to walk us through getting it fired up again. Does not suspect jumped timing, just need to get to TDC and then move what we need to move to get it firing and running. Suspects Bubba has oil pump off a few lugs so that going by the bok for firing order and cap and wire locations is throwing us off. We'll get to TDC and take pic of timing marks on pully and rotor location and go from there. He even gave us his personal cell phone to call him over the weeend.
Outstanding offer. Especially since it sounds like I do not need any more parts from them to solve this problem. But if I did, price would not be a consideration.

I'll keep all posted and possibly some pics.

[m-37Bruce]

Leave the BFH on the bench, lol, the guys at VPW are really there to help.

[greeno]

That’s awesome!

~Bubba

(When tearing down I marked the dizzy but had no idea about the oil pump).