Advice needed on head install
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Advice needed on head install
Hi,
I'm about to install the head on my 230 and need some advice. I have two options, use head bolts or studs. Would studs put less wear and tear on the block threads in case they have to be removed again ? I have a set of new studs and the original bolts. Use original bolts or buy new bolts or use the studs ?
Thanks.
I'm about to install the head on my 230 and need some advice. I have two options, use head bolts or studs. Would studs put less wear and tear on the block threads in case they have to be removed again ? I have a set of new studs and the original bolts. Use original bolts or buy new bolts or use the studs ?
Thanks.
Re: Advice needed on head install
my opinion, having done precisely one M37 head, recently. I bought a set of ARP studs, some are longer for accessory mounts. Studs go in once, they have a small allen wrench head so you can screw them in easily. Use your preference of a sealant, i used Permatex #2, non hardening, so when you re-torque it won't break some sort of hardening on the threads. I believe studs allow for a much more even head torque bolt to bolt, as you are not dealing with differing thread corrosion or wear or whatever. Used the suggested copper coat on my head gasket. Plus, with studs, you can wipe off any squeeze out of the sealant around the threads before you set the head. So, i think studs avoid some of the "issues" bolts may have. Let me try to post a picture or two of my studs. You need a little creativity to use the long one attachments. I will try to add a few pics now.
NV
NV
Re: Advice needed on head install
Thank you,
Nice looking engine. You've brought up good points about using studs, I'm going to go that route. I don't know the origin of the studs that were given to me so I'll probably order the ARP stuff. Is there a torque setting for the stud install or just tight?.
Thanks again,
Bob
Nice looking engine. You've brought up good points about using studs, I'm going to go that route. I don't know the origin of the studs that were given to me so I'll probably order the ARP stuff. Is there a torque setting for the stud install or just tight?.
Thanks again,
Bob
Re: Advice needed on head install
I used the TM spec torque for bolts, but VPW's comments about studs suggests ten pounds less than for bolts. When I re-torqued after a few heat cycles, I got about a half turn on each stud nut. I think the important thing is even torque across all the studs. I brought each one up in ten pound increments.
NV
NV
Re: Advice needed on head install
I attached my engine block ground to the side of the head, in an unused threaded hole, with an ARP stud, but you could just bolt it to the head on the side. I have since flipped the spark wires to have the curve at the plug, not the dizzy. Also note my oil pressure gage, the Autometer gage is mounted on the steering column, just put a T into the oil pressure line, covered the copper wire to the gage with rubber tubing, to avoid abrasion. Nice to have my oil pressure right in front of my eyes.
![Image](https://s26.postimg.org/ho43kw1k9/DSCN1811.jpg)
![Image](https://s26.postimg.org/ho43kw1k9/DSCN1811.jpg)
Re: Advice needed on head install
Nice setup. You mentioned the VPW website recommending the torque values for the bolts vs stud nuts, what about the torque for the studs themselves when installing them in the block using the allen wrench?
Bob
Bob
Re: Advice needed on head install
there is no torque for installing the studs. You can screw most in with your fingers, to set them precisely to depth I measured how much thread I needed to put a nut and washer on them, I used an allen wrench to insert them to that depth. Later today after the sun comes up, i'll go out and try to get that depth. By the way, the ARP studs and nuts/washers have a smooth coating of some sort on them, so they go in easily, and the nuts tighten smoothly. I had earlier "chased" the threads with an ARP "clean-out" tap. Designed to not take off too much off the metal on the block threads. Ask me any thing about this, although I have only done one head on an M37, it seemed to work out fine for me. Be sure you have the correct head gasket, there are several but only one has the perfect holes for the water and studs/bolts. By the way, decide where to put the engine lifting bracket, my motor came with it one hole forward of where the TM's have it. It has a lot to do with balancing the engine when you go to install it with your cherry picker. The TM shows it one hole more to the rear. I looked at lots of on-line engine pictures, and they vary a lot as to where it goes. I think it can make a big difference of how much the powerplant tips when you are trying to set it onto the mounts. Like, radiator on or off, and so forth. And how much safe extension you can have on the arm of your cherry picker. Plus, you need help to get the powerplant to drop correctly onto the mounts (I bought new rubber insulators from VPW), and a set of suitable "taper pins" to help line up the block bolt holes and the frame holes. Plus, take off the fan, I slightly bent one blade hitting my 'picker arm when I had to tip the whole shebang to get it over the front of the frame. Engine with clutch and trans weighs something like 800 pounds, so I suggest putting the lifting hook where the TM shows, or one hole to the rear from mine. I will try a pic now.
Re: Advice needed on head install
here, and I had to take off the oil filter cannister as it hit my wirewall, although the filter mount cleared. Then put the filter back on when the motor was set. It would not have been at such an angle with the radiator on, and the lifting eyelet one hole to the rear. But it went in with the help of my son, who stood on the frame rails with a rope under and up lifting the rear of the poweplant. You gotta be very careful doing all this.
NV
![Image](https://s26.postimg.org/4dymac4ix/DSCN1795.jpg)
NV
![Image](https://s26.postimg.org/4dymac4ix/DSCN1795.jpg)
Re: Advice needed on head install
That is a very big hunk of iron hanging there! Really clear shots of everything, thanks. I appreciate the time to explain your experience putting the engine together. It amazing how much weight can hang on a couple of pieces of hardware in that bracket, scary.
Thank you for your service .
Bob
Thank you for your service .
Bob
Last edited by greencom on Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Advice needed on head install
just measured stud length out of block. Short studs are 2 and a half inches, long are 3 and a quarter from top of block, leaves one to two threads above nut. Masking this and that now, will shoot it in several hours when it warms up to about 70 degrees. I thought about adding just a "touch" of hardener to the Gillespie 2407 but then realized if it adds just a little gloss, the 12 cans of matching rattle can will never quite match the "sheen" of the paint. So, no hardener for my truck.
There are far more experienced members on this forum, but I just got mine to running, and it seems to be just great. Full engine rebuild, balanced, etc. So if you have any questions, I will try to explain what so far seems to have worked for me.
NV
There are far more experienced members on this forum, but I just got mine to running, and it seems to be just great. Full engine rebuild, balanced, etc. So if you have any questions, I will try to explain what so far seems to have worked for me.
NV
Re: Advice needed on head install
ah rats, just resprayed my truck with Gillespie, thinned about 10%, 20 second on the drip cup, and it looks great, but somehow I got some runs on only the passenger door. Razored off them somewhat, have a fan on it, but will have to sand the whole door down and try thinning it more than I did. I think I was watching my pattern as I sprayed, and wanted a "wet coat", and shot too thick. I am using a #4 tip on my new high grade Fuji gun. If I thin more, perhaps it will "flow out" better, without needing to be so thick.
Eventually, my truck may be held together by the paint.
learning as I go...
NV
Eventually, my truck may be held together by the paint.
learning as I go...
NV
Re: Advice needed on head install
Yeah, paint.,
When I bought my truck I wondered what shade of OD it was, good paint job but I couldn't match it to anything. The seller said he had it sprayed with forest green and gave me a can of Aervoe. When I sprayed a part with it it didn't match the truck . Years later I got some paint chips from Gillespie and their forest green chip matched the truck, I ordered a spray can of it and it's pretty much a match. That's the wrong color for this era truck but it looks good. OD is sooooo much more forgiving than glossy auto paint, it even looks good when I do it! The flatter the better.
When I bought my truck I wondered what shade of OD it was, good paint job but I couldn't match it to anything. The seller said he had it sprayed with forest green and gave me a can of Aervoe. When I sprayed a part with it it didn't match the truck . Years later I got some paint chips from Gillespie and their forest green chip matched the truck, I ordered a spray can of it and it's pretty much a match. That's the wrong color for this era truck but it looks good. OD is sooooo much more forgiving than glossy auto paint, it even looks good when I do it! The flatter the better.