I'm whizzed..

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nivek
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I'm whizzed..

Post by nivek »

I have no religious preferences period.

However the Tradition of the Recitation is long standing, American, and deserved by the Vet whose Life is being memorialized by that Flag.

I am DISGUSTED by the nameless cretin who is trying to stop this Tradition.

If this shit shows up at any of our Honor Rides, whatever bitching may be said WILL be drowned out by loud pipes...


kevinL 46 VL, 57 FLH




Flag-folding recitations for vets banned because of religious content
Associated Press
OneNewsNow.com
October 26, 2007
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/10/flagf ... for_ve.php

RIVERSIDE,California - Complaints about religious content have led to a ban on flag-folding recitations by Veterans Administration employees and volunteers at all 125 national cemeteries. It all started because of one complaint about the ceremony at Riverside National Cemetery in California.

During thousands of military burials, the volunteers have folded the American flag 13 times and recited the significance of every fold to survivors. For example, the 12th fold glorifies "God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost."

The complaint revolved around the narration in the 11th fold, which celebrates Jewish war veterans and "glorifies the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob."

The National Cemetery Administration decided to ban the entire recital at all national cemeteries. Details of the complaint weren't disclosed.

Administration spokesman Mike Nacincik said the new policy outlined in a Sept. 27 memorandum is aimed at creating uniform services throughout the military graveyard system. He said the 13-fold recital is not part of the U.S. Flag Code and is not government-approved.

Veterans and honor detail volunteers, including Bobby Castillo, 85, and Rees Lloyd, 59, are furious. "That the actions of one disgruntled, whining, narcissistic and intolerant individual is preventing veterans from getting the honors they deserve is truly an outrage," Lloyd said. "This is another attempt by secularist fanatics to cleanse any reference to God."

World War II Navy veteran Castillo said it's "a slap in the face to every veteran."

"When we got back from the war, we didn't ask for a whole lot," Castillo said. "We just want to give our veterans the respect they deserve. No one has ever complained to us about it. I just don't understand."

Lloyd and Castillo are part of a 16-member detail that has performed military honors at more than 1,400 services. They were preparing to read the flag-folding remarks at the Riverside cemetery when graveyard staff members stopped them.

Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict. "This is nuts," Waters told the Riverside Press-Enterprise by telephone from Fresno. "There are 26 million veterans in this country, and they're not going to take us all to prison."

Nacincik said that though the flag-folding narrative includes references to God that the government does not endorse, the main reason for the new rules is uniformity. "We are looking at consistency," Nacincik said. "We think that's important."

Rabbi Yitzhak Miller of Temple Beth El said he understands the ban. "It is a perfect example of government choosing to ignore religion in order to avoid offending some religions," Miller said. "To me, ignoring religion in general is just as problematic as endorsing any one religion."



Flag Folding Ceremony

The flag folding ceremony represents the same religious principles on which our country was originally founded. The portion of the flag denoting honor is the canton of blue containing the stars representing the states our veterans served in uniform. The canton field of blue dresses from left to right and is inverted when draped as a pall on a casket of a veteran who has served our country in uniform.
In the Armed Forces of the United States, at the ceremony of retreat the flag is lowered, folded in a triangle fold and kept under watch throughout the night as a tribute to our nation's honored dead. The next morning it is brought out and, at the ceremony of reveille, run aloft as a symbol of our belief in the resurrection of the body.

(Wait for the Honor Guard or Flag Detail to unravel and fold the flag into a quarter fold--resume reading when Honor Guard is standing ready.)

The first fold of our flag is a symbol of life.

The second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life.

The third fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veteran departing our ranks who gave a portion of life for the defense of our country to attain a peace throughout the world.

The fourth fold represents our weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in times of war for His divine guidance.

The fifth fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, "Our country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong."

The sixth fold is for where our hearts lie. It is with our heart that we pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The seventh fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that we protect our country and our flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our republic.

The eighth fold is a tribute to the one who entered in to the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day, and to honor mother, for whom it flies on Mother's Day.

The ninth fold is a tribute to womanhood; for it has been through their faith, love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great have been molded.

The tenth fold is a tribute to father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since they were first born.

The eleventh fold, in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

When the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, reminding us of our national motto, "In God we Trust."
(Wait for the Honor Guard or Flag Detail to inspect the flag--after the inspection, resume reading.)

After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington and the sailors and marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for us the rights, privileges, and freedoms we enjoy today.

Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict.


Note from a KY Friend:

They are welcome to TRY and stop our Legion Riders.
Might wanna bring some backup when they do though.
'52 M-37 "Old Blue" still in 11enty-bazillion parts
'52 M-37 "Rusty Red" parted
Lifer
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Post by Lifer »

I have heard it said that the "traditional" recitation you provided above dates back to the first world war. I have also been told that it dates back to the revolutionary war. Neither is the case. There has never been an officially recognized "explanation" for the individual folds...only that it was folded in a triangular form to resemble the tri-corn hats worn by those who won our freedom from England.

It was written by an enlisted Air Force chaplain's aid in 1967 while he was stationed in Saigon, RVN. He allegedly requested permission to read it at his unit's retreat ceremony one evening and, having done so, was urged by his commander to submit it to the Stars & Stripes for possible publication.

As one who saw the Berlin wall go up during my first enlistment and
saw it come down during my last, the flag recitation is not a "long-standing tradition" in the historical sense. To the young men and women presently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, it probably is.

What I'm trying to say is that the "starting point" of history varies with the age of the person who ponders it. When I was studying American History in junior high, WWII seemed like "ancient" history to me but less than 20 years after the end of that war, I was walking over much of the same ground that my father's generation had fought and died on. To the current generation, the Viet Nam war is also "ancient" history.

This being the case, I suppose that the "13 folds" recitation has become a "long-standing" tradition in its own right, even though I saw its first publication in the Stars & Stripes (Pacific Edition). Gawd! When did I become so OLD??? ;)
"PER ARDUA AD ITER"
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nivek
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Appreciate the further info Lifer!

Post by nivek »

I hate it when some dumbass has to do all he/she can to mess up the dignity of a fallen Vets service.

Simply going after whats become a digified portion of the burial, a way of showing Honor by the comrads to the family, just pisses me off.

We Ride here. yeah, even out here in rural Eastern Or and Wa we get folks influenced by the Phelps Clan with their "God hates XXXXXX".

Nothin' quite as nice as fifty scooters at high rev and as many and more bearded leather clad *muthas* singing something appropriate...

Seems to cause the Phelpsians to go find some other venue that day to try and picket..

kevinL
Son of a Navy VN Vet Lifer
'52 M-37 "Old Blue" still in 11enty-bazillion parts
'52 M-37 "Rusty Red" parted
Barley Pop
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Post by Barley Pop »

We, Americans are losing everything we have fought for. If our founding fathers could see what is happening right now they would drag the traitors out on to the steps and the rest is what you all know what needs to happen. I may sound out of line, however this is how they handled things 200 years ago and it worked. Politicians are like diapers and need changed frequently.

Barley...
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Post by Lifer »

Barley Pop wrote: Politicians are like diapers and need changed frequently.
Barley...
...and usually for the same reason!
"PER ARDUA AD ITER"
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Post by SOTVEN »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barley Pop wrote:
Politicians are like diapers and need changed frequently.
Barley...

Lifer wrote:
...and usually for the same reason!

AMEN for that... worldwide...
LIFE IS SHORT AND ENDS UNEXPECTEDLY. MAKE EVERY MOMENT WORTH REMEMBERING.
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Post by Barley Pop »

We are under attack from with in. Voting may not be an option anymore, since the system is poluted to the point that you can no longer tell who is right due to the hiden agenda against our people. I am not an alarmest, how ever the wake up call is in front of us.

Barley...
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