Maybe this isn't Technical, but......

[w30bob]

So I'm outside the other day dicking around with the M. Nothing specific, just looking at things. And I realize it's wintertime and this thing has no heater. Ok.....the previous owner did install a small heater under the dash.....but it didn't have a heater when it was in service. Which got me thinking.....why don't these trucks have heaters???? It's not a big deal to run two hoses to a heater core under the dash and have a small motor blow some air.

I also realize our troops were supposed to be dressed for the elements.....but come on.....we're talking about a silly little heater. How was that overlooked? I realize they had a polar kit for the M that had a hardtop and heater.......but who fights in polar regions?? And since MOST of the M37s didn't have heaters what would we do if we DID have to fight in a polar region quickly. Send up all the M's without heaters and hope for the best? They had heaters in all cars and trucks for civilians in the 50's didn't they?

So later in the day I'm driving my Ford Escape and I figure I'll see what it's like. So heater off, all windows down, sunroof open. I'm wearing a nice thick flannel shirt and a jacket. It sucked. Really. And it was in the 50's. So it must have REALLY sucked driving one of these things on any day when the temperature was less than 50 degrees. Unless you're getting shot at and then you don't care what temperature it is.

To me a heater is a no-brainer......what am I missing here???

thanks,
bob

[powerwagontim]

Hi Bob,
I guess in the 50s we were worried about the Russians flooding across the Bering Straits so we had M37s with the add on fender heaters. From whay I have seen, it is an easy thing to put a heater under the glove box, but it really eats up the foot room for your passenger. I like my fender heater, it does a pretty good job. I have a good friend in Georgia who was stationed in Germany in the 60s. His CO insisted that all trucks have no tops and windshields folded down, at all times. He said that REALLLY sucked! I bet the CO was inside a nice enclosed and heated sedan.
Tim

[Cal_Gary]

I run the MUTT heater in mine, tucked right up under the glove box, and it still has ample foot space under it, and those 20,000 BTUs don't hurt either!
Gary

[Carter]

IIRC, the total M37 production was something like 110,000 units and with each having a $50 heater it could just have been saving money that the bean counters had in mind when the specs were drawn up for production that dictated no heater for the majority of the trucks. Short answer might have been it cost to much.

[Tom @ Snake River]

Not putting a $50.00 heater in half of the 110,000 trucks would have saved 2,750,000.00 dollars.

[Carter]

That's a lot of money for heaters Tom.
Saving money is usually the reason items are removed from the contract. It's not like M37s were never going to catch fire but the extinguisher was deleted or GIs would never need a first aid kit but it also was dropped. Remember we had just suffered through WWII and defense budgets had been slashed and we had the largest deficit ever so the Army wanted every truck they could get and cutting the final cost of each truck is what they did.

[hbb]

The big factor was the cost per vehicle. These vehicles found themselves in every climate known to man so it was not cost effective putting a heater in every vehicle. A hot water heater failure in a hot climate could render it useless.
It wasn’t that many years before any vehicle had a heater at all so it was considered a luxury. Ambulances were the few that were equipped with gas heaters and the arctic and extreme cold weather vehicles had ad on heaters that could be installed out on the fenders when delivered to those areas.
When it is cold outside where do you try to go? Where it's warm right! Well if you’re in a combat situation you don’t want your troupes fighting each other to get into a warm cab.

hb

[w30bob]

I guess you guys are making sense......it comes down to cost. Based on that I'm surprised they put roll up windows in the doors and padding in the seats!!

thanks,
bob

[52 M-42]

I guess you guys are making sense......it comes down to cost. Based on that I'm surprised they put roll up windows in the doors and padding in the seats!!

thanks,
bob

In a lot of the WC series Dodges they didn't put windows and doors on. The guys in Germany and France probably didn't like it in the winter, but the guys in the Pacific probably didn't mind.

"Padding" in military vehicle seats has always been kind of a vague term.... at least for a lot of them I rode in.

52 M-42

[rickv100]

In contracting it is all about the bid. If GM was competing for the contract and could offer the truck for $100 per unit cheaper they would have gotten the contract.

Besides in contracting it is not about the upfront sale it is about the follow on contracts. Once the government committed to buy the M37, Chrysler had a guaranteed customer for at least 10 years or more in parts, upgrades, and refurbishment contracts.

Think about all the military trucks and how many arsenal rebuilds, overhauls, etc programs the government does.

Rick

[w30bob]

Rick....you bring up an interesting subject. Did Ford and Chevy even have something that could compete with the M37? I don't think I've ever read about what they submitted, if anything at all, to the competition. If there was one. Hmmm................I'll be right back.

Ok.....that got me thinking again....never a good thing.....so I pulled out my handy dandy TM9-1840C fake TM regarding the production story of the M37. Here's the condensed version.....

In August 1948 the Army met with Chrysler to discuss how to replace it's aging light truck fleet.
They talked about using the Power Wagon, but didn't see any cost advantage to using it compared to a new design.
They decided to build a new truck, which Chrysler began to design.
They discussed pricing a few times and order 6 prototypes.
The Army, in an unusual move, did not use a competitive bidding process....this one was Chrysler's baby all the way.

So in this case there was no competing bids from Ford or GM, but they did have the Power Wagon to base costs off of.
It also says the M37 was designed to meet interim Army Specification No. 91-186 dated July 26, 1948. That spec probably says no heaters!

hb also makes a good point....with a heated cab on a cold day you'd know where all the soldiers were!!!

Thanks guys,
bob

[rickv100]

Yep, Chrysler had the 3/4 ton market from 1940 through the 1960's. That is why the Army competed and they wound up with the M715 truck. The 60's was also the era of the whiz kids and Robert MacNamara as Sec of Defense.

Still the term in contracting is "Land and Expand". You get the contract and then expand the scope and size of it afterwards.

Rick

[52 M-42]

There is a little more to the M-37 story and Chrysler/Dodge. International Harvester tried to get in on that light truck contract. The story behind that is a real "political thriller" kind of story. Harvester got stomped for putting their nose in where it wasn't wanted.

Also in WW II the story about the Jeep contract and what went on between Ford and Willeys makes interesting reading. Ford pulled a lot of political strings and tried to bankrupt Willeys over that contract. Willeys had done all the development work (and assumed the associated costs); then Ford wanted the complete production contract.

There is lots of interesting history beneath the surface of these vehicles if you are interested and are inclined to dig. It is not flattering to a lot of the actors in the drama.

Storm 51

[greencom]

I've always thought the Bantam/Ford/Willys story would make a good movie, there's politics, intrigue, corporate espionage etc. However, I'm sure it would be a box office flop.

[Kaegi]

the Dodge preferrence goes way back to WW1. Pancho Villa had dodge cars and in our engagemnets with him we had model Ts. The dodges were leterally running circles around the fords and when we saw this we immediately went out and started buying Dodges. so when the 30s rolled around dodge was the proven first choice for light duty and dodge also invented the disengageable transfer case in the early 30s. dodges first 4x4 was a 1.5 ton in 1934 then in the late 30s they built half ton prototypes and the other competitors offerings were just not in the same league. throughout the teens, 20s and 30s, dodge engines proved world wide to be the most reliable things out there in an affordable price range. first car to succesfuly drive the long way across the Gobi desert! among many other firsts. the 230 had more power than a ford flathead v8 too. HIstory proves never send a Ford to to a Dodges job.