PTO Leak question, revised

Wayne64 · Post by **Wayne64** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:36 am

I deleted the old thread since it was not explained correctly, besides until I climbed under it again I wasn't sure what I was looking at. The leak is coming from the reverse idler shaft (the one with the 7/32" x 2-1/4" button headed rivet) Looking at the parts break down I see the gear is riding on what looks like caged needle bearings and a spacer to keep it lined up. When the truck is running this shaft is spinning? The spinning shaft doesn't seem right and what originally kept the oil in? I have further questions on this shaft but will wait on an answer to this post. TIA

Carter · Post by **Carter** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:47 pm

Wayne, Is the shaft spinning when the engine is running without the PTO engaged or when it is, or both? I just crawlled under my truck with the engine running and the PTO disengaged and the shaft wasn't turning, however I didn't run the PTO and don't know if it will turn when engaged as I was working by my self and didn't want everything turning while I was underneath it and I never spent any time underneath when I was winching

but suspect those shafts aren't supposed to turn at all. There is no bearing in the gear case and the shaft has to be driven from the case with a hammer and brass drift so it's a drive in fit with no looseness and held in place with a rivet.
Charles would know and not have to get underneath to look and figure it out like I would. Charles, please enlighten us.

Wayne64 · Post by **Wayne64** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:11 pm

Thanks Carter, The shaft is spinning without the PTO engaged. I won't even attempt trying the winch till I can drain and change the winch fluid and when it gets a bit warmer out.

Carter · Post by **Carter** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:53 pm

I understand about the temperature delaying things. I am furtunate to have a heated garage and an able to do year round work but I am thinking about an AC unit for the hotest days. The older I get the less I like temp. extremes

On the PTO, I suspect frozen bearings might be the culprit and will be intrested in learning what you discover when it warms up.

MSeriesRebuild · Post by **MSeriesRebuild** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Carter wrote:Wayne, Is the shaft spinning when the engine is running without the PTO engaged or when it is, or both? I just crawlled under my truck with the engine running and the PTO disengaged and the shaft wasn't turning, however I didn't run the PTO and don't know if it will turn when engaged as I was working by my self and didn't want everything turning while I was underneath it and I never spent any time underneath when I was winching but suspect those shafts aren't supposed to turn at all. There is no bearing in the gear case and the shaft has to be driven from the case with a hammer and brass drift so it's a drive in fit with no looseness and held in place with a rivet.
Charles would know and not have to get underneath to look and figure it out like I would. Charles, please enlighten us.

Fellows if this shaft is spinning in the housing at any time, you have a serious problem. Certainly a PTO rebuild is in order promptly. A good possibility the housing a already ruined I would say.

Wayne64 · Post by **Wayne64** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:10 pm

Agreed Charles about the case. I will try a test next week to see if the bearings are seized on the shaft as Carter pointed out. Start it up and confirm the shaft is turning. Shut it down and lock one of my welding vise grips, shaft end to shaft end, start it up and if the grips jump off the gear is seized. If the shaft remains stationary and I don't hear any noise I'll think up a shade tree temporary fix till the spring. I'll have to check the amount of meat on the ends of the case as I could line ream the holes, turn some press fit shoulder bushings and with a new shaft and bearings make it happen. I have more time than money for a new case. Oh, are the non PTO tranny covers available to keep the truck in service?

MSeriesRebuild · Post by **MSeriesRebuild** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:02 am

Port covers available, no problem, I have many.

Wayne64 · Post by **Wayne64** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:20 pm

Caught a break today and did my test. I started up the truck and crawled under while running to both see the shaft spinning and to size which clamp I needed to use. The shaft was indeed spinning and when sizing the clamp I got the shaft to stop spinning with only a small amount of pressure. I installed the clamp and ran up the RPM a bit and everything seemed fine noise wise. What I did notice by setting the clamp is that the shaft is drifting fore and aft which leads me to believe that with the shaft spinning it has eaten away most of the 7/32 rivet. How does this temporary fix sound.
To stop the shaft from spinning, remove rivet and tap the hole 1/4-28 for a bolt that will act as a set screw.
Fabricate a clamp with washers which will clamp a piece of neoprene over each end. To stop the oil loss. In the spring get a tranny cover from Charles and drop out the PTO after I test the winch. When the PTO is out I would also add a small allen socket 1/8" pipe plug for draining purposes in the future. Opinions please

PTO Leak question, revised

PTO Leak question, revised

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