So yesterday I go to my local ACE hardware to get some decorative lamp cord to fix a ceiling lamp for mom. I find the clear cord on a spool. It looks like just enough. I need about twenty feet.
The guy comes to cut it and says "boy, I hope there is 20 feet here". He measures it out and there was about 20' 8". He cuts it at the 20 foot mark and puts the 8 inches back on the rack! Like he could'nt have given me that and charged me for twenty feet? Who is going to come in for 8 inches of clear lamp wire?
David
HingsingM37
1958 M37B1
1968 M101A1 Trailer
MVPA# 33078
"Do Not Take Counsel of Your Fears"
General George S. Patton Jr.
"Those who pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not".
They actually re-cycle that stuff... go figure. There is a company that comes around and "buys" the various bits left over. At Home Depot, the sell off the 8" pieces of molding to a recycler!
HingsingM37 wrote:So yesterday I go to my local ACE hardware to get some decorative lamp cord to fix a ceiling lamp for mom. I find the clear cord on a spool. It looks like just enough. I need about twenty feet.
The guy comes to cut it and says "boy, I hope there is 20 feet here". He measures it out and there was about 20' 8". He cuts it at the 20 foot mark and puts the 8 inches back on the rack! Like he could'nt have given me that and charged me for twenty feet? Who is going to come in for 8 inches of clear lamp wire?
Sounds like a real tightwad! Most "ACE Hardware" stores that I am aware of are franchises and most of them are run by mom and pop and they charge plenty. We have one near us(Its actually another name now but the same owners) and they basically suck from a hardware standpoint, high prices and they rarely have what you need. Their saving grace for me is their nut and bolt section, as they have always had what I need for my truck such as fine threaded bolts in various sizes. You can't get that at Tractor supply.
I have to laugh at this place though because when the Lowes was built just up the street, the owner said he feels confident he'll be able to compete with them because of the home town feel and repore with the customers etc. I flat out told the guy that customers are not loyal and will go where the cheapest prices are. He seemed to think I was crazy. Well, the constant XX% sale signs in front of his store lately are testimony to my being right, as its obvious this guy is scrambling to hold a business base. Don't get me wrong, I think Lowes sucks, but they have what I need (most times) and their prices are way better.
Shame on him! There's always a "slop factor" built into a company's pricing formula that compensates for "short" or "long" measurements by sales personnel. I'm sure that when you crunch all the numbers, that extra 8" was more than adequately covered by the original markup.
Well I guess all of you are right in your own way. But has anyone who feels the guy is a chinch checked on the cost of new copper or scrap copper prices lately? It would only take a minute to remove the insulation from that 8" piece, what you have left is the pure highest price piece of new copper at the recyclers scales. Saving these short ends really adds up fast, I'm sure he was thinking that when he cut off the short piece & hung on to it. When you buy copper wire at NAPA for instance, the computer does the price analysis in .1 of a foot increments. You buy a 20' 8" length, you will be charged for 20' & 8". Gentleman that's the world we live in today, call business people a chinch or realize he is providing a service to you & trying to survive just like you are. No glory in being a merchant, it's called making a profit or you don't survive.
MSeriesRebuild wrote: it's called making a profit or you don't survive.
It could also be called "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" as well. For if you tick off the customer and he decides to shop eslewhere, then you've not only possibly lost out on that particular sale, but also any future sales from that person. In turn that potential lost customer may tell some friends of the cheap salesman, etc ,and they themselves may decide to take their business elsewhere. So trying to make a "profit to survive" from 8 inches of leftover wire, or a whole spool of wire for that matter may just not be enough if your customers fly the coop!
MSeriesRebuild wrote: it's called making a profit or you don't survive.
It could also be called "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" as well. For if you tick off the customer and he decides to shop eslewhere, then you've not only possibly lost out on that particular sale, but also any future sales from that person. In turn that potential lost customer may tell some friends of the cheap salesman, etc ,and they themselves may decide to take their business elsewhere. So trying to make a "profit to survive" from 8 inches of leftover wire, or a whole spool of wire for that matter may just not be enough if your customers fly the coop!
Sorry, this doesn't wash from a common sense view point. Truth is we ALL have to realize what each other faces in the business world, in time past I would & have many times done just what has been discussed earlier in this thread & passed the 8" on without even saying it was there. Just can't do this stuff anymore on a regular basis & survive. Now I know you don't intend to agree no matter what I say, no problem. All I can say is I know something about doing business & survival, I would assume you have not been on the retailers side of the counter, so until you've had experience there, you will never have your eyes opened. On the other hand, all these folks who will take their business elsewhere because the merchant can't afford to do hand outs these days, well he will be better off without them. Reason: if he had given the guy the 8", he may have sent in some friends saying, go here, he's free hearted & will give you extra. Next thing you know, the friends he sent in will be mad at the merchant because he couldn't keep on giving & survive. I dare say the guy very likely would have ended up making more enemies if he had give him the extra wire than he will by doing it the way he did. I've seen it happen. By the way, get used to it, with the current events of the last few days, it will be harder for us all to do business in the days ahead, maybe you need to pay a little closer attention to prime time FOX news. We ain't living in the 60's anymore, I wish we were personally, but that's another story.
I agree with Charles, the days of giving something extra or doing a bit of extra work for a customer have gone by. In the past when a customer brought in a gun into my gunsmith shop to have a scope installed for example, I would do an additional small job on the gun like replacing the missing front sight bead or polishing the bolt bright at no extra cost but no longer. With the cost of everything going up I am forced to charge for everything I do for customers. Some of the people understand but some repeat customers have gotten angry and guestioned why no little extras at no charge. I have lost a couple of them but the rest seem to understand that I can't work for free any longer. Big or small I must charge for all the work I do or loose money and I won't stay in business long that way. Carter
Carter
Life Member:
Delta, Peach Bottom Fish & Game Assn.
Wow, I didn't mean to stir up such contoversy. First the valve lapping now this I will agree Charles and Carter have a valid point also. I however have won and continue to get big orders because of the little "freebies" I give to customers. It builds loyalty and keeps them coming back. A sample bearing here or a free coffee mug there makes the difference.
Last year I coated at no charge some shot peen paddles for a customer who had to replace them twice monthly. I wanted him to try the product. The coated paddles laste twice as long and we now coat all of there paddles. While on the sight he asked if we sold motors? We now sell him the 10HP 3PH motors of which they use 3 anually.They now buy all of the MRO supplies from us. YTD sales $12,100.00. All a result of a low cost sample. My auto mechanic gets all of my work beacause of the no charge tire repairs he has done for me on a regular basis.
David
HingsingM37
1958 M37B1
1968 M101A1 Trailer
MVPA# 33078
"Do Not Take Counsel of Your Fears"
General George S. Patton Jr.
"Those who pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not".
I appreciate the sample stuff you sent me a while back, but this is a little different situation discussed here in my opinion. If I were purchasing products designed as a hand out, of course I would hand them out. Larger Co's such as you work for also have more room to do the hand out/tax write off thing. Us small businesses are forced to look at things differently. I'll agree that sometimes a little extra brings in a deal, I also know that sometimes it doesn't matter. You may find this hard to believe, but it's true as rain. I bid a job too cheap once & ran out of time before it was completed, worked 4 months till it was completed & charged NO LABOR. That's correct, I paid my help as usual yet didn't collect a dime of labor for the last 4 months we worked on the project, much more than just a small hand out. The customer left with a super nice truck just the same as if he had paid normal rates. How much more work do you reckon that big fat freebie brought in from him, NOT A DIMES WORTH, & I literally handed him thousands of $$$. Maybe this sheds a little better light for you on my opinion here, if you can top this one, I'm all ears. This is also why I no longer bid jobs sight unseen.
Used to twist and weld pipe and structural steel.
Did so for "The Man" on and at every little spot where my specialty was required most of worldwide. By time they called for me, situation was too FUBAR'd with local help or crew to fix.
Got used to fat checks for being an FAC, "Fat Assed Contractor".
Went into several other things, including using my medical skills, providing cover for various groups and teams of workers going into known hot spots to, again, fix FUBAR's .
Got really good at being able to scope work out while we were on site to ensure things got done RIGHT, and we'd not have to fly into Capetown, SA, then sneak over border to Outer Salamistogswan, and back before we got caught.
It is not the big shit that kills a contract. Finding that it is all the niggling little things that "oughtabeendone" that catch up to the provider and end up sinking jobs profitability.
Having settled down some and turned industrial wrench for some of my living, I can see where M-SeriesCo can E A S I L Y loose their backsides on the things needing done, can't leave shop without doing, but not on paper to be paid for.
After I busted my back, I went into computers and networking. Make a decent living fooling around with them from home/office.
I will N E V A H again "bid a job over the phone" or "by guess and by golly".
Have a large posterior. Have in turn left parts of it on jobs I wish I had never seen, or taken part of.
All because i wasn't paying attention, or got locked into something far too tightly.
Won't even cry about the custom gun work I've given to customer at a several hundred percent loss to me..
Being prudent, calm, kind and knowledgeable to customer is something that is *given*. Being raked over coals financially at check signing day sucks.
kevinL
'52 M-37 "Old Blue" still in 11enty-bazillion parts
'52 M-37 "Rusty Red" parted
MSeriesRebuild wrote:Well I guess all of you are right in your own way. But has anyone who feels the guy is a chinch checked on the cost of new copper or scrap copper prices lately? It would only take a minute to remove the insulation from that 8" piece, what you have left is the pure highest price piece of new copper at the recyclers scales. Saving these short ends really adds up fast, I'm sure he was thinking that when he cut off the short piece & hung on to it. When you buy copper wire at NAPA for instance, the computer does the price analysis in .1 of a foot increments. You buy a 20' 8" length, you will be charged for 20' & 8". Gentleman that's the world we live in today, call business people a chinch or realize he is providing a service to you & trying to survive just like you are. No glory in being a merchant, it's called making a profit or you don't survive.
I bought some seals from David and I was pleasantly surpised by the little goodies he included. Things like this goes a long way. I will definitely order from David again. Whether designed as "handouts" or not, a company or individual could decide not to do this, but its when they decide that the customer is worth more than the cost of a few small items, that says alot. Now don't get me wrong, I understand perfectly the idea that in today's economy everything costs money. There's no doubt about that, however we're all feeling it, not just the businessman. If a business will not go out of its way to show incentive to attract my business again, why should I continue to shop there? Hey noone here is holding out a hand and expecting a freebie. When I bought from David I fully expected to get only what I had ordered. when I opened the box and saw all of the other items he included at no charge, that really showed me that this is a person whom I would like to continue to deal with. In no way do I expect this kind of treatment all the time, and if it stopped I'd fully understand, howevr the bottom line is those small trinkets said to me "I value you as a customer", and that means alot.
Nick I agree with most of what you said. You would be surprised though how some people will react when the freebies have to stop for whatever reason. People will actually get mad over it. Our situation here falls into a little different catagory, we do lots of little things along the way on a rebuild that could be considered in the hand out catagory, but because they are buried deep in mechanicals somewhere they are never noticed. It's not that many folks aren't doing this & that in the extra catagory for their customers, many times it is simply the unknown that has saved the butt down the road on the customers behalf. More times that not, that customer never realizes it ever took place. Here is one for instance. Most folks on this forum know we offer a pinion seal upgrade kit. For every person who has ever ordered this kit, I have taken the time to press the new seal into the retainer before it leaves here. I use the best quality sealer I can find on it before pressing it in, that sealer is $14 per tube & the time it takes to press it in is time we could be on something else where profit can be recognized. I'm glad to do this & have never mentioned it, only now do I mention it because of shedding light in this thread. Little extras are just that no matter what form they come in. I see both sides of this issue very clearly, can't say one opinion is right & the other wrong.
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First the valve lapping now this 
