Engine rebuild shops?

[MSeriesRebuild]

What about the cost for the labor of doing it ALL? The fact that someone may work off a flat rate manual says nothing really; what does it amount too? Adding a few $$ for parts really says little to the major question. Are these components getting gone through thoroughly or just getting looked at and saying that will pass? You still didn't mention warranty if done right professionally, of course I'm aware there would be none if you did the work yourself. I'm trying to get a real picture of cost for a job done RIGHT down to the last detail. I'd like to compare what you suggest to the engines we turn out here. I already see you seem to be headed nowhere near the extreme that we do when going through a complete engine thoroughly. When ours go to the customer, they can be removed from the crate, installed and driven with all final adjustments having been already made on our test stand. Oil is in the crankcase and the air cleaner; for the most part they are better than new right down to a top quality paint job. Ours have a 12 month or 12,000 mile warranty when they leave our test stand if we have built them according to our specs. If a customer has requested something less than our standards, that warranty may not apply to all components. You know, an honest apples to apples comparision, not the fact that maybe you can do it cheaper, anyone can offer it cheaper if they don't pay attention to fine detail. Another issue is this; just guesstimating is one thing, the real business world we all live in today is quite another. Folks like us who have employees are faced with much higher $$ payouts, not just in salaries, but all the taxes, govenment requirements placed on businesses, etc, etc, etc. After all this, then there is to be considered the bottom line, did you make it into the black? I'm not at all familiar with such requirements in Canada, but we are getting scalded down here. Nothing has changed except what we have to charge in order to come out; even the part that if you can't turn some profit, you have to lock the door. You just can't turn a profit charging what we used too anymore; that part has indeed changed.

[BILL L]

This subject of engine rebuilds and truck restorations has been brought up many times and the bottom line is no one is right. I have more respect for someone that does their own work, weather it be engine, body or what ever and they are happy and proud of it than the guy that says "I paid $$$ for this engine rebuild or paint job" bragging about how much it cost him, getting no satisfaction out of what they accomplished. If you paint your truck in your back yard and it cost you $100 worth of paint and you are happy and proud of your work, I am all for you.
I have afriend that rebuilt his engine for around $600, did he replace everything? No, just what needed replacing. It runs good and he is happy with it and can say he did it himself, thats all that matters in this "hobby"
To this day I can not understand why anyone would take the time and money to rebuild something that is working just fine. Would you rebuild a generator or starter that is working just fine? It may last the life of the truck as is, if not rebuild it when it stops working.
To me owning an M37 is just a hobby, yes I can afford to pay someone to do all my work, but that takes the satisfaction out of doing and saying "I did it myself" Ever notice the reaction people get when they ask who painted or does your repairs and you say "I did it myself"
This is just my feelings on the subject, so feel to bash me all you want,I can take it.

[DJ]

Amen ,Bill L,I'm with ya on that summary. There is a lotta diference in hobby vs business. Nearly all of us here are in the hobby catagorey,I would think. Unless your hobby is spending thousands of dollars on a truck.

DJ

[Tanner]

I have afriend that rebuilt his engine for around $600, did he replace everything? No, just what needed replacing. It runs good and he is happy with it and can say he did it himself, thats all that matters in this "hobby".

Not a bash by any means, but folks need to realize that replacing a few parts doesn't qualify as a rebuild.

A remanufactured engine is one in which the engine/accessory systems are brought back to meet the OEM factory specs.
A 'rebuild or overhaul' falls within a wide range of anything less than the previous statement...

I've seen new seals installed in an engine that had a rattle-can paintjob called a 'rebuild'; just as I have seen a throroughly measured/mic'd/bored/trued/all new or otherwise qualified parts engine assembly that ran/performed better than when it was originally built & left the factory... no comparison & a big difference in price/quality.

There will always be people that will pay for skilled expertise in getting a quality built product at a price. I don't pass judgement on what people pay for getting the end result that they desire to achieve for their dollars spent.

[Lifer]

[quote="Tanner]A remanufactured engine is one in which the engine/accessory systems are brought back to meet the OEM factory specs.[/quote]
Bringing it back to OEM specs does not necessarily entail repair or replacement of individual components if those parts are, themselves, within specs.

I've seen new seals installed in an engine that had a rattle-can paintjob called a 'rebuild';

That doesn't even qualify as a 'rebuild'...a 'repair,' maybe.

just as I have seen a throroughly measured/mic'd/bored/trued/all new or otherwise qualified parts engine assembly that ran/performed better than when it was originally built & left the factory.

That amounts to an over restoration and is just as bad from a purists viewpoint.

There will always be people that will pay for skilled expertise in getting a quality built product at a price. I don't pass judgement on what people pay for getting the end result that they desire to achieve for their dollars spent.

I don't either. It's their money and their truck.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Well the discussion has gotten to a repair, a rebuild, and a remanufactured engine to include all accessories. Each should be catagorized for what it actually is and priced accordingly. Most of the builds of various components we do would fall into the remanufactured catagory, thus the reason many here seem to take issue with our way of doing things. When a customer contacts us about various projects, we discuss the options; they are then free to choose however they would like us to approach it. That is what we do. Most of our work comes from outside of NC; when people ship stuff in for refurbishing, they usually want to do it once and not have to worry about it for a long time; we offer service done that way. If we simply say well this generator seems to work ok and leave it at that; who knows whether the next time the engine starts a bearing may seize or the brushes that may have been worn out suddenly fail. Who does that make look bad? When the customer calls back and says I just got my engine back and the generator doesn't work; the line "well it worked fine when it was here" never seems to be a satisfactory answer. People who ship trucks or components here send them because they desire a first class job; that's why we have customers from all across the US and outside the country. We have a reputation for addressing all issues and doing it right. That is probably the biggest single reason our business has grown to what it is today. We are currently building mechanical components that were shipped to us from overseas.

The generator issue is a special concern simply because of the oil reservoir on the early models that furnishes lubrication for the front bearing. Most of the generators on M37 trucks are the early style. I can't tell you the last time I went into one of these units that had a drop of oil in the reservoir. No oil, the bearing will eventually give up obviously. Most people have no idea the gen even has an oil reservoir, thus they don't know to monitor the oil level, etc. Even if they do know it; the failure in the vast majority comes from the oil seal failing that is behind the front bearing, letting the oil escape back into the generator housing into the field coils and the armature and back to the commutator and brushes. Of course this leak is internal and is not visible from outside. Most of the time the gen fails due to oil getting where it doesn't belong or the bearings lack of lube. This issue is so common to these units, it's rediculous not to pull it down and check it out. The front bearing is also easily replaced with a sealed bearing, eliminating the need for oiling, and eliminating this issue completely. We upgrade to the late style set up. The later units are built this way without the reservoir. This is why we suggest going through such components, but it is totally up to the customer whether or not we do.

Most of our customers stress the fact that they don't want to have some maintenance issue going on everytime they push on the starter pedal. They want things done right, so when they want to drive; the truck is ready for reliable service. We offer that type of service. If you prefer something less; that is totally up to you.

[DJ]

And the original question by Scott K was ??????

[Master Yota]

The easiest way to sufficiently answer your question Charles, would be for you to give me a rundown on on what your average customer has done they when ship you an engine. Concentrate stricly on the engine, nevermind the generator or starter, and bill out the work you'd do accordingly. Please include any recomended machine work, parts, and upgrades that you feel are necessary to improve the reliablity and/or performance. Also, include a general rundown of any measurements or blueprinting techniques that you feel are neccessary. I'll take your list down to the local machine shop that specializes in strictly engine work, and see what they have to say. I'll also make a trip down to the other machine shop that specializes in more industrial type engine rebuilds, and see what they have to say. Without much fuss, I'll have for you a quote about as close to home plate in the ballpark as its going to get.

If you'd rather not post any trade secrets or propriatary information that may be harmful to your enterprise, feel free to pm the list with whatever information that you deem necessary to make an adequete evaluation. This should take any guesswork out of the equation. Who know's, we may both end up surprised...

[MSeriesRebuild]

And the original question by Scott K was ??????

I guess we all know Scotty ask about a rebuild facility in Iowa. This is a discussion forum or that is my understanding anyway. If I participate in an original discussion or question that eventually turns into something more; the fact that it makes a turn doesn't bother me in the least. After all, if the discussion gets off in a direction that no longer holds my interest; I just stop reading it and move on to a subject that does.

[M37UK]

The way I see it is that there are 4 types of truck owners on this forum.
The first is the guy who has a worn out truck but uses it for agricultural type of work, and who is happy to use any make-shift fix to
keep their truck running.
The second type is the guy who has years of various mechanical or engineering experience and who can fix pretty much anything that goes wrong with their truck, and takes great pride in doing so.
The third type is the guy who has limited mechanical experience but enjoys doing what he can to make the truck run and look its best and isnt afraid to try new things, with lots of help from guys on this forum.
The fourth is the guy who isnt very good with his hands at all and needs help to do even the smallest job on his truck.

Having varying degrees of knowledge and experience does not mean we dont all enjoy our hobby and take pride in our trucks, it just means that sometimes some folks have to pay a bit more to get the truck the way they want it.


BTW, I class myself as the third type of guy, and I dont mind paying a bit extra to get my truck running its best.

Cheers!

[Master Yota]

Thats a pretty bang up description Stu!

I think of myself as mostly second description with just a little bit third for the sake of hubris!

[Tanner]

True, but don't assume that just because you spend a buttload of money you will get
a quality rebuild. Let me qualify the last statement. I spent way too much for a rebuild.
24K$ for an engine, a clutch upgrade, a brake job, and some electrical.

J.B.

Gentlemen:

My bet is that jbxx misstated his expenditure & should have said $2.4k, NOT $24 Thousand - he either missed adding in a decimal, or misused the 'K' -

THAT is what I believe had messed up this rather interesting conversation...

'Tanner'

[Tanner]

[quote="Tanner]A remanufactured engine is one in which the engine/accessory systems are brought back to meet the OEM factory specs.

Bringing it back to OEM specs does not necessarily entail repair or replacement of individual components if those parts are, themselves, within specs. If the part is worth bringing back to spec; when I rep'd drivetrains for Jasper, we didn't reuse ANY American valves, but we would grind the valves that met OEM spec on foreign engines; the materials in the Japanese valves were of much better metallurgy

I've seen new seals installed in an engine that had a rattle-can paintjob called a 'rebuild';

That doesn't even qualify as a 'rebuild'...a 'repair,' maybe. agreed

just as I have seen a throroughly measured/mic'd/bored/trued/all new or otherwise qualified parts engine assembly that ran/performed better than when it was originally built & left the factory.

That amounts to an over restoration and is just as bad from a purists viewpoint. if it's a component INSIDE the block, I don't care about the purists

There will always be people that will pay for skilled expertise in getting a quality built product at a price. I don't pass judgement on what people pay for getting the end result that they desire to achieve for their dollars spent.

I don't either. It's their money and their truck.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

'Tanner'

[DJ]

Charlie, I didn't say I was not interested,it was supposed to be light humor. I feel a little common courtesy,by not hijacking his question would be the gentlemanly thing to do.

[Lifer]

Very valid points, Tanner. I wasn't picking on you...or anyone else for that matter. I was just trying to define the various points in your post.