Another Engine Rebuild...

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ashyers
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Another Engine Rebuild...

Post by ashyers »

After a gamble on road trip lead to damage to the last engine we rebuilt we've embarked on another rebuild at the SLHS Auto Shop.

Before I get into the engine stuff I wanted to thank my friends Mark and John for their help on this project and say how helpful the g741 site has been since I started playing with M37's 8 years ago. The site has provided tons of useful information and more importantly has lead to a great group of M37 friends all over the country :). It's also fortunate we have vendors like MWM and VPW to help support us. I like all kinds of vehicles, but the comradery of the MV community was a special surprise. On to rebuild #2.

The engine we're rebuilding was pulled from a truck BBQ'ed in the Napa fires in '17. The rear of the truck was heated enough to warp the leaf springs so everything behind the transfer case is suspect, but the engine seemed OK. The students and I were able to get the truck running on 3 wheels and a moving dolly! The though was to see if we could just swap the BBQ'ed engine into the other M37. Once we were satisfied that it ran OK we pulled it out for examination and possible installation.

The exam didn't go as well as hoped, but it was educational for the kids! The bores were standard and the crank was .010" under. The rod journals showed signs of wear from debris and sitting so we decided that we'd begin tearing the engine down. The bores looked bad. They had major wear, but not on the thrust surfaces. Since the wear was only on the siamesed portion of the bores and not on the thrust surfaces I suspect it was run hot and the lube broke down on that area of the cylinder leading to the wear. The bores had no ridge at the top. Then we saw the #2 Intake cam lobe, it was missing a chunk! Not sure what happened there, but I'm sure happy we chose to rebuild the engine and not run it! Other that some adventures due to a broken stud (VERY educational!), the teardown went well. We now have the engine completely apart and are busy cleaning it up prior to its trip to the machine shop. The volume of "mud" in the bottom of the water jackets was impressive!!!! Hopefully we won't find any more surprises.

The plan for this engine is simple and an evolution of the last rebuild. The engine's cruising speed will be 2800RPM with a governed max of 3000RPM. This worked well with the last motor and survived a lot of miles between 55-60mph without frying the transfer case or tossing rods. We're using mostly NOS parts and will increase the performance via compression ratio, cleaning up the ports and back cutting the valves. We're going to use a small chamber 218 head again and adjust the CR by decking the block, milling the head and using a custom head gasket. The last engine had a CR of ~7.7:1 and squish of .07". This was good for ~20 lb-ft of torque throughout the operating range of the engine. I was not able to get the squish and CR I'd hoped for due to issues with decking the engine. This time around we're shooting for 8.5:1 and a squish of ~040". This should bump the power and efficiency up further and still be reliable. I have most of the parts in hand, a fresh 218 head (THANKS Mark!) and a deck plate (THANKS John!). Now it's time to get the block/head ready for the machine shop and check on the custom head gaskets.

I'd like to get this thing up and running by June, but it's been busy at home, so we'll see. I enjoy playing with these old engines and if I rebuild enough of 'em I might even learn something! Maybe one day we'll make over 60RWHP :).

Andy
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Re: Another Engine Rebuild...

Post by Elwood »

Are you going to back cut all of the valves or just the intakes? What angle are you using?

Port matching the manifolds and gaskets, or just smoothing the port walls?

Any thoughts on polishing the chambers in the head? I'm in the process of doing a chamber volume match and polish on a small chamber 218 head, and will be interested to see how (if at all) it affects the performance. One quirk about the chamber match is that timing port in No. 6, so I made up a plug for the hole to even up the volumes and eliminate a potential carbon hot spot in that one cylinder.
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT...” -Declaration of Independence, 1776
ashyers
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Re: Another Engine Rebuild...

Post by ashyers »

Elwood,
In response to your questions:
Are you going to back cut all of the valves or just the intakes? What angle are you using?
We'll back cut the intakes and radius the outer edge of the exhausts to try and help low lift flow. As far as angles, nothing fancy, just a typical 3 angle valve job.

Port matching the manifolds and gaskets, or just smoothing the port walls?
We'll match the ports and remove any nasty stuff in the ports. The last motor's intake was pretty bad. It had steps in it! I at least want any "steps" to not hinder flow! I'm thinking about trimming the guides, but am torn on that issue. I don't want to undo any fixes that the original design had.

Any thoughts on polishing the chambers in the head? I'm in the process of doing a chamber volume match and polish on a small chamber 218 head, and will be interested to see how (if at all) it affects the performance. One quirk about the chamber match is that timing port in No. 6, so I made up a plug for the hole to even up the volumes and eliminate a potential carbon hot spot in that one cylinder.
We won't be doing any serious polishing of the chambers. We'll knock of anything that may cause a hot spot or mess up the volumes but that's it. The internals of the previous engine were as cast and with a mild coat of carbon they were quite smooth. It would be fun to put a thermal barrier coating on them, but...

I'm using bits of what I've learned from Visard's Tuning an A-series and Lawson's Flathead Facts plus what I can find on building Briggs Jr. Dragster engines. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears! Since this engine won't be turning over 3000 as I see it it's all compression and low lift flow. I will say the Jr. Dragster engines are pretty scary, scary like a hand grenade!

Andy
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Re: Another Engine Rebuild...

Post by NAM VET »

my own truck starts and runs great, in fact was just out the hanger where we store and work on our vehicles, did a quick oil change of both the Jr up top and my 4 micron Canton Mecca filer I use in my 24 V oil pump system I have added, out via the drain plug, and back into the engine via the fuel pump block off plate. At first glance, both filters look free of debris, and I will go back to the hanger (we call it our Motor Pool) and further examine the filters.

My cruise with OEM gears and tires is right at 40 mph or so, rarely faster. My engine is balanced. What problem did your previous engine have? And glad to know that someone out there is teaching young adults automotive repair work. hal
ashyers
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Re: Another Engine Rebuild...

Post by ashyers »

Hal,
I was out in the boonies and I wounded the previous motor when I took a gamble trying to make it to town when the radiator sprung a leak. I nearly made it!

Eventually it will get fixed...

Andy
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Re: Another Engine Rebuild...

Post by NAM VET »

oh, sorry to hear. hal
ashyers
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Re: Another Engine Rebuild...

Post by ashyers »

About that rebuild...

Well, we did not get the rebuild done before summer break. I'm disappointed, but it will get done in the Fall.

What did happen is I decided that we couldn't do much harm to the engine that got hot and I wanted a running truck. To this end a we completed a valve job on the engine, which it needed judging from the leak down test and the coloration on the valves/seats. After some searching on Ebay I found the parts I needed to get the Sioux 645 I picked up running well and we ground the valves and the seats. We're running a .070" seat on the intakes and a .070"+ seat on the exhausts. All of the valves received a 30deg back cut to the end of the seating area. I'm curious to see if this proves durable.

The milled Plymouth 218 head that was on the engine had cracks around the #3 spark plug hole so we grabbed a head I had sitting around from a "high compression" '59 engine. It was sitting because the chambers were all wonkey with a range in cc's from 68.1 to 75.6. This is pretty bad compared to the other heads Mark G. and I have measured. For perspective a factory M37 head measures around 101cc's and an uncut "high compression" head measures around 88cc's + 2cc's. This bugger averages 73cc's. The M37 head has the large symmetrical chambers while the 218 head and the '59 head share the smaller asymmetrical chambers.

I thought this would be interesting to try since I'm looking to raise the CR as high as I can with 87 octane. This engine will have crappy squish clearance of .070", but if it works it will give me some idea of how high I can push the CR. My ultimate goal is to get the ''squish" down to .040" on the motor we're rebuilding with a combo of decking the block and a custom .032" small chamber gasket. This should increase detonation resistance significantly compared to the motor we're experimenting with and will allow me to dial in the CR by milling the head.

So at this point you're probably wondering if any of this worked. Well I got the engine up and running last week and so far it's working well. It has decent power compared to when it was freshly rebuilt some years ago and there's no signs of detonation. I've done about 60 miles at WOT on the governor at 55-60mph and it's pulling the local hills well. When I get a chance I'll do a compression and leakdown test. At the moment I'm just trying to get some miles on it and see if the "new" used radiator is going to hold up!

Andy
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