Roll cage and new seats

[MarkPick]

Hey Guys,
My wrenching hand is starting to twitch again, that along with a severe case of OD fever is driving me nuts! I have found a pic of the type of roll bar I want to put in my truck. I am still working on the mounting brace that will connect it to the frame. It will sit in the bed right behind the cab. As for the seat, Can someone tell me what type of seat is in the picture? Year, make and model? I have discovered that the stock drivers seat is very uncomfortable, I find that I hunch over the steering wheel and I sit too high up. I am looking out the top third of the window. I have searched this site and others for ideas of both seats and roll bars.

I dont want to change the truck from what it is. I love old trucks! But for safety sake I am going to do a few upgrades. Any info or links to info would be greatly appreciated.

[MarkPick]

sorry guys, give me a few to remember how to post pictures. Have them in a few.

[MarkPick]

Ok, lets just do it this way. http://offroadaction.ca/2013/10/22/1952 ... wer-wagon/

Hey Guys,
My wrenching hand is starting to twitch again, that along with a severe case of OD fever is driving me nuts! I have found a pic of the type of roll bar I want to put in my truck. I am still working on the mounting brace that will connect it to the frame. It will sit in the bed right behind the cab. As for the seat, Can someone tell me what type of seat is in the picture? Year, make and model? I have discovered that the stock drivers seat is very uncomfortable, I find that I hunch over the steering wheel and I sit too high up. I am looking out the top third of the window. I have searched this site and others for ideas of both seats and roll bars.

I dont want to change the truck from what it is. I love old trucks! But for safety sake I am going to do a few upgrades. Any info or links to info would be greatly appreciated.

[tbone1004]

almost impossible to say what ymm those seats are unless someone happens to have one with them in there but they look to be the second row seats out of some sort of SUV or minivan. Just about any aftermarket seat combination like that will work. The Jeep WJ seats *99-04 Grand Cherokee* would work fairly well as it is a 60/40 bench and the way the seat is designed the bottom lifts forward with the back being able to fold down. You could adapt the seat brackets to where you wouldn't lose your underseat storage *in the WJ this is where the spare tire jack and wrench is kept* and the seats would be easily removable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-GHHeYJyw
Here's a good video of a common mod to these things to make the seat removable. I did this on my WJ and if I was going for a bench I would consider using these seats. You can see how the front mount is hinged and bolts vertically like the original seat does, and the back seat is on a hinge so you would have to fab a cross member for the back to sit on as well as for the back of the seat to rest on, but I think if you're going to put in a new bench seat that something that splits up in the middle would allow you to keep the battery under the seats as well as maintain some storage underneath

[Master Yota]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but that has to be one of the ugliest "roll-bars" I've ever seen. Looking at how its built, I would say all it does it make the truck heavier, not so much safer...

As for the seats, I have no idea, but I would looks for a 60/40 set from something with a cab width about the same size as an M37. Dodge Durango, or Dakota, GMC Canyon, or S10 variant, even a Ford Ranger might be close... Second or third row seating from any of the newer SUV's might also be an option...

[tbone1004]

yeah that roll bar is definitely not structural it's just aesthetic. No integration to the cab, and based off of where the mounts are it doesn't even go straight to the frame rails. I wouldn't trust those seat belts a bit either since they're just on the stock door frames. Definitely not up to code with those... Much better roll bar options out there if you think you need it, but if you're doing it for aesthetics then more power to you

[MarkPick]

Yota,
That is the same response I got from my mechanical contractor today when I showed him the pictures. He just laughed and said it would not hold up in a roll over either. I will keep looking and drawing and measuring......

Thanks for the tip on the mid sized trucks seats. that will widen the search and give me more options.

And thanks Tbone for the link on the seats. I have been all over the web looking for ideas. just want something that is functional and adds to the look of the truck instead of junking it up.


Thanks again guys,

Mark

[tbone1004]

yeah you can find the jeep grand seat sets for pretty cheap on craigslist. A proper roll cage will be very difficult for the M37 because you will need to come up and over the windshield and get into the front frame rails since there is 0 structural support in the windshield frame.


This is what they have to do to the deuces to get a structural roll cage, and frankly that is the only way I see you being able to put one on an M37. There is nothing structural in these things above the frame rails that can support any sort of weight so you would have to connect into the frame. No space to connect in the front end due to the steering and hood, so you would have to go out to the front of the frame rails then back and tie into the frame in the bed. Would give you a really ugly front end and no usable space in the bed. If you think you're going to be wheeling it hard enough to roll it then it's worth doing it, but there really isn't a way to get it to look good and be functional

[Master Yota]

I don't know if I quite agree with Tbone's synopsis. Material choice and design plays a very big factor in how a cage is built. When you realize that there is nothing structural above the cowl on a jeep either, it means that the doors are open for an eye pleasing design that is both functional and practical. The challenge with an M37 is the lack of foot well room for a down bar in the front. The simplest solution is to copy what jeep has done, and tie the cage into the dash/door post area to conserve foot room, and yet tie into the strongest part of the cab. The rear down bars can land on either side of the seats and the whole cage can be kept under the soft or hard top. Tying into the windshield frame is unnecessary.

I do agree with Tbone that the weight of the truck will make most cages buckle eventually. My thoughts on a cage are to provide a stiff enough resistance to prevent going fully over during a flop. The windshield and the tin top doesn't have enough rigidity to stop a rollover from happening, but a cage might just to the trick if its a low speed flop. Anything is better than nothing.

If you don't have the skills to build a decent cage, then I would look for an off road shop that does custom fabrication. Chances are these days that they will have a mandrel tube bender, and a quality welder/fabricator who can do the job for you. As for materials, I would consider seamless Chromoly tubing, with a 1.5" diameter and at least a 0.120 wall thickness. Muffler pipe won't cut it. It probably won't be cheap, as custom fab work usually isn't, but if you really think your life might depend on it, then cheap isn't what you're looking for anyway...

[tbone1004]

Ray I was going more along the lines of that could actually handle the thing rolling over on it's back which would require something significantly more substantial than what jeeps have for "roll cages" they're more along the lines of what you indicated, something to prevent it from rolling completely over but not really something that would remain undamaged if the thing turtled. I still don't think you could do it like the jeeps do as far as coming down before the windshield because there isn't enough room to triangulate it in the very small confines of the cab. You have to get down directly to the frame rails or solid cross members, no room for negotiation there and it really has to be designed properly to factor in all of the moment forces at the joints

http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8189/811 ... 86a0_m.jpg
That's a link to the standard deuce true roll cages for brush trucks and about the only way I still see to properly protect one of these trucks from a true rollover

[Master Yota]

There are varying schools of thought on cage design. And there is plenty of room in the cab for triangulation, its all in the layout and design. The kick panels are hollow, so tubing could be brought down through there to allow for a frame tie in. The cab is big enough for an easy 4 point tie in, 6 or 8 is possible if you build cage/seat mounts and get rid of the oem seating and then punch forward through the firewall into the engine bay. At this point in the cage design though, I might hesitate to consider a different vehicle for the intended terrain.

Tying into the frame is usually a good idea, unless the impact shears off the body mounts, which are only bolted the frame, then the cage simply becomes a blender inside a moving bowl...

One of the saving graces of the M37 is that its rather low and wide, with a low center of gravity, Its quite difficult to get it turn turtle in the first place. And if successful, I'd be more inclined to yell operator error than anything else. There is no shame in backing down...

Fred Williams is a feature editor for Petersen's 4wheel and off Road, and he built an M37 a few years ago, and its fully caged. Here is the you tube video for us to enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zGu7e7zGuQ

[MarkPick]

The roll cage isn't so much because I worry about a roll over, my big time wheeling days are over. I think the roll cage is more about solving a puzzle, figuring out a way to make it work and look nice when your done. If I were to do the roll cage I would most definitely have it done by some one professionally. My welding leaves a lot to be desired. Looks like a flock of pigeons flew over it! I just don't have the knack for it.

I am on the trail for seats. Got a lead on some out of a 99 explorer. I think I will focus on the seats first. That and given the advice on here about how difficult it is to roll one of these under normal use. Mine will mostly stay on the blacktop, every now and then might see some dirt.

Again most of this is from being cooped up inside and having too much time to think of what I could be doing instead of sitting on my duff. I need to turn some wrenches!


Thanks again guys for the thinking points.

Mark

[Master Yota]

I know exactly how you feel Mark. What's that saying about "idle hands..." ?

Also, the Ford Explorer has some of the most comfortable and supportive bucket seats I've ever had the pleasure of parking my butt in; at least the leather buckets from the Eddie Bauer edition's were...

Most off road mishaps that I've been party to have been low speed flops. I'm sure if you practice your passenger foot well diving skills, you'll come out ok...