Low compression

[jim lee]

Jim Lee,
If this is the seal you are talking about it is held by bolts.


Bert

Yes, that's the one I'm talking about. Is the seal glued to the plate? 'Cause I have a plate and a seal. If you are gluing it on, does the rim on the plate go into the groove in the seal? I'm assuming the rim goes into the groove.

And yet another question. Anyone have a spare cork distributor to block gasket? Or is that something that's still available?

Thanks!

-jim lee

[MSeriesRebuild]

The distributor cork seal has not been available as new for a long while, has not been in overhaul gasket sets for several years either. Don't waste your time with NOS, it will be dry and likely will break when you try to install it. The best solution is to acquire fresh cork material and a gasket punch set to cut your own. We have been doing that for years now. Using fresh material is the key to success that won't drip oil.

[jim lee]

Ok thanks!

One more question. The tangs that hold the points plate down. Do they go in flipper up or flipper down? I didn't notice when I pulled mine apart. Well, they were broken. I can put them in flippers up, makes sense to hold the plate down. But would this put too much force on the little guys?

Anyone still up?

-jim lee

[MSeriesRebuild]

Ok thanks!

One more question. The tangs that hold the points plate down. Do they go in flipper up or flipper down? I didn't notice when I pulled mine apart. Well, they were broken. I can put them in flippers up, makes sense to hold the plate down. But would this put too much force on the little guys?

Anyone still up?

-jim lee

You have it right.

[jim lee]

Manual says timing 2 deg BTDC. This what people are using? What is full advance when revved up?

Thanks!

-jim lee

[tbone1004]

I thought that the manual said 2* atdc... Either way, Charles claims 4*btdc is optimum for the engine, so that's where mine is set and it starts up and idles like a top. Not sure what full advance is, but mine has a civvy distributor on it so the timing curve may not be the same.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Manual says timing 2 deg BTDC. This what people are using? What is full advance when revved up?

Thanks!

-jim lee

4 degrees BTDC is the best setting for the vast majority of applications. There are some exceptions due to altitude, fuel quality, etc., one simply has to try different settings to see what works best in those special situations. A good way to double check optimum for you is set up initially at 4 before; then take a drive giving it some healthy acceleration; if you get spark knock when accelerating under a load, the timing is set too high, (is advanced too much). The most advanced setting you can run and get no spark knock under load is what you are looking for. In our area, that is 4 degrees BTDC.

[vtdeucedriver]

[quote=

Bert

And yet another question. Anyone have a spare cork distributor to block gasket? Or is that something that's still available?

Thanks!

-jim lee[/quote]

I believe I got mine from John Bizal. Last I knew he still had em. Before you install, put some vasoline around the mating surfaces and it should install just fine.
No issues to date with the one Im using.

[jim lee]

My manual says both 2 deg BTDC & 2 deg ATDC. This is one of the main reasons why I ask. 4 actually sounds more usual. And for the cork gasket, I just replaced it with a big 'ol O-ring. I figured that should work fine.

Here's some more pix..



Recall the distributor. It was pretty nasty inside.




This is actually the "after" shot. All the bearings seemed fine, it just wanted a fair bit of cleaning. The top part, with the cam that sits on the counterweights, fits on either way. From what I could tell you get a 50:50 chance of getting it 180 degrees out. It looks like the only change is #1 plug wire is on the opposite side of the distributor cap. Mine is 180 degrees out, and its staying that way. I don't feel like changing it.




Hold down tangs. The manuals don't cover these bits. They hold the plate that the points and things mount to in place. The trick is to install these, tang UP to hold the plate down. ( I had to ask. )




All the goodies back in and ready to go. Had to reuse the old condenser mount. The new mounts put the condenser too close to the point's cam. Also rerouted the condenser wire backwards 'cause the new ones are too long to lead direct.




The distributer vent line fittings were all munged up by people cross threading them.




So, with the help of a local fabricator I made up a new set. Had to do a lot of head scratching to decide how to make and install these. The manual had a cross section picture, but it was for some "early model" and didn't make much sense. I put the bent exhaust closer and pointing to the carb intake and the crosscut intake closer and open to the air filter. Lets hope that works.




And, of course, like so much on this machine. The threads needed cleanup.




Plumbing planning. Once the new fittings were installed there was much head scratching over how to run the tubes.




Tube runs over the cylinder head. I'm not too good at this plumbing thing and it takes just forever to make up these lines.




Down to the distributer..




And this is where everything stopped. I'd finally finished the lines and just as I was to make up the flexible ends and finish this part of the project... I discovered I bought the wrong size elbows for the distributor. Arrgh! Tomorrow is a holiday and the stores will all be closed. Rats!

Anyway, this pretty much finishes the plumbing bits. And they were a WAY bigger issue that I ever expected!

-jim lee

[MSeriesRebuild]

I see 2 issues here; #1 you have the oiler hole in the housing shaft bore plugged. You need a 90 degree male-female elbow there, then put the plug in the top of the elbow. The top bushing in the distributor does not oil from the engine; all it ever gets must go through the elbow. The deal is this; periodically remove the plug from the elbow, fill the elbow with engine oil using a pump oiler, reinstall the plug. I'm assuming you did replace the round felt wick which would be behind the plug the way it is configured in your picture; oiling will not work correctly with no wick in place. Your top bushing will die a quick death if all this is not correct and oiled frequently. The oil seal in the top of the shaft bore should always be replaced at rebuild intervals, it must be functioning properly to keep oil from going back into the housing. If this is going on, the oil simply goes into the distributor housing rather than staying below to do the job of oiling the top bushing. How many of you guys have removed a coil from inside the housing to find oil standing down in the bottom? Honestly, we hardly ever pull one down that doesn't have oil in it.

#2, possibly the oil return tube from the filter canister may interfere with distributor rotation. What I'm saying is the distributor housing may run into the tube bend area before the timing is advanced enough. It's impossible for me to see enough detail in this picture to make a definite call as whether it will or won't but it looks to be so close the paint will stand up on it if you know what I mean. Double checking this now and maybe changing the return tube before anything else gets in the way very well may save much frustration later. Actually the bend and proper location of that bend is VERY critical. It will interfere with future starter installation / removal and distributor rotation in relation to setting the timing if the tube is not bent just right and the bend placed just right. The bend needs to be tight too although not touching the dipstick tube. It comes from between the block and the tube like you have it, however the actual bend curls right around the dipstick tube in a very close fashion. Any protrusion such as shown in your picture generally leads to a problem in at least 1 function and likely will create an issue both ways.

After a couple of good looks at the photos, I also see that it appears you intend to use a section of hose to hook up the vent tubes to the distributor. This is not correct; tubes should be bent so they can be attached directly to the brass fittings in the distributor housing using the correct inverted flare type fittings and nuts just the same as they attach on the top end at the air horn. They use the same set up as brake line tubing at both top and bottom ends. There will be plenty enough flex and movement in the vent tubing to allow for timing set if the tubes are made up correctly and are properly secured at attaching points. I've seen many trucks come through here that had rubber hose installed here. Obviously most pay no attention to vent tubes, and in fact have no clue why they are needed. As a result of that, I've seen many that had a kink forced into the hose when adjusting timing. That cuts off the air flow and kills coils faster than you can buy them. Hose does not dissipate heat like the metal tubing does either, it actually acts as insulation causing more heat to build and remain close to the distributor housing for a much longer time than it will without the hose being incorporated into the mix. Prompt heat dissipation in and around the distributor is crucial, the smarter option is to do everything you can to see all is the best it can be in relation to that. Your frustration factor and the frequency in which you open up your wallet will remain much lower. I'd guess 75% of the owners that call us wanting to discuss distributor issues; we have figured out by the end of a short phone conversation that a huge majority of such problems are tied directly to ventilation issues. The other 25% are most often related to not being properly serviced; most of that due to the owner or service man has never been told of the design and need for critical periodic maintenance that must happen. It is most definitely a great system, but it must be maintained correctly.

Not able to see, but just a reminder not to forget to replace and oil the felt wick that is in the top of the cam under the rotor. This is another crucial lube point that only gets drip oiling. Failure to maintain this properly will result in a worn out cam and shaft much sooner rather than later. This one is almost never serviced properly, most people don't know it exist.

Good luck.

[vtdeucedriver]

One final note from charles's post. He is right about the upper wick being ignored too. Its in the TM but I guess people just dont read anymore about their vehicle. So another thought is that you might want to add a piece of heat shrink on the two wires to the coil. 9 out of 10 times when the insulation starts to get brittle, it will let you know as it decides to short out as its pinched between the coil body and the hold tabs. It would be better to see the wires getting old at a inspection interval then being stuck on the side of the road.

[jim lee]

And I so hoped to be done with this plumbing/distributer thing today.

This is one thing that's so frustrating about working on this machine is that there is so much "black art" in it. I'm forever looking at things and going "What in the world were they thinking when they designed this?" I don't know how people kept these things running before the internet.

I'd assumed the venting was just to keep crankcase gas at bay to help the points live longer. Never considered that the coil needed cooling. Now that you point it out, it makes sense.

I do have the elbow from the side of the distributor. That was another "What's all this nonsense?" item that I "simplified" out of the equation. The elbow is an oil reservoir.. Never in 1,000 years would I have caught that one. I'll put it back together like it was then. Now the seal and felt for the shaft. I don't recall seeing any. It must be there 'cause the shaft we well lubricated and fit really nice. Not like it was worn out or anything. I'll pull the poor thing down and have another look.

Sigh..

As for the oil filter line. If it won't work like it is, I'm stuck. I made it up as tight as I knew how with the tools I had. If it ends up needing to be tighter? Gonna' have to get creative I guess..


On the plate that goes between the bottom of the bell housing and the block. The plate had a lip around the top edge, the gasket had a matching groove.. I glued the gasket to the plate lip into groove. Then bolted it to the bell housing gasket forward. (Facing the block) Is this correct?


Thanks everyone!

-jim lee

[jim lee]

Here's version II of the distributor project..


The missing felt wick. Being told about the oiling system for the top shaft bushing got me looking closer at all these parts. Turns out in the distributor I was rebuilding this bit was missing. The spare distributor had the oil passage sealed off as well. Opening it up I found this, the missing felt wick. Because of this I had enough parts to assemble a complete top bushing lubrication system.




Distributor re-rebuilt. Added the heat shrink as a chafe protector. Assembled the lubrication system that was mostly missing for the upper shaft bushing. Installed the correct vent fittings.. And, aligned the shaft so #1 is pointing up.




Put so much time and thought into the vent lines with the flexible ends, I want to try 'em just to see.




Theoretically all the plumbing fits.




Front side looks like everything fits too.




And wires. Add the gearbox and we're ready to install!


Thanks again for all the tips!!

-jim lee

[MSeriesRebuild]

The elbow fitting should be a 90 degree instead of a 45 degree. The 90 will hold more oil; it should be oriented so the plug points straight up with the unit installed.

[jim lee]

Ok well, in it goes. time to get this project moving.


Gearbox bolted on. That gearbox did not want to go back on.



The screwdriver started as something to hold things out of the way. It ended up being the thing that was in the way. Took us a while to find what was holding things up.



Motor's in! Had to bolt up the radiator to get the weight and balance correct to get it to go in.



Dr T., Designer of the Simple Stereo and Touch lights, came by and helped getting everything lined up and bolted in.


So now its time to start hooking things up and seeing if this thing will actually work.


-jim lee