50 cal M2HB on M37

[w30bob]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know if Browning 50 cals were ever mounted on M37s? I've never seen one or even a picture of one. So here's a few questions I have;

1. If the M2HB was ever installed on an M37 does anyone have a pic of such?

2. Did the Air Force ever mount the M2 on an M37? Anybody ever see a pic of such an animal?

3. If they did mount them on M's....did they use the M24 pedestal mount? If not what mount did they use?

The reason I'm asking is because now that I've been to a few military shows it's become obvious that vehicles with guns on them attract a lot of attention. And the bigger the gun the better. This weekend at the show in Montgomery, NY I got to fire a Browning 30 cal with the propane conversion. It was pretty darn realistic. The 50 cals they used during the reinactment appeared to be real, but firing blanks......I saw shell casings beign spit out and no propane/oxygen lines going to the receiver.

That's when it came to me that an M37 with a big ol' M2 in the bed would be a pretty cool thing. Maybe some of you have already gone down that route. Let me know what you think.

thanks,
bob

[WarrenD]

A few of the Vietnam Era M37 guntrucks did have 50's on them. A good place to search is the Guntruck forum at Steel Soldiers.com. Also, James Lyles has published 3 books on guntrucks in Vietnam, Vol 2 and 3 have M37 GT's in them. Mike (Maddawg308) was doing a replica of the M37 GT "Raiders Light Work" which had a 50. Just be advised, all the M37 GT pics I've seen have some sort of armor box. There may have been some M37s in Nam with just a 50 mount in the bed (for base defense?) but I haven't seen pics of one like that. As for the AF, you'll probably have a hard time finding proof there was an AF M37 with a 50.

A word of caution. Mounting a 50cal in the bed of a M37 will require re-enforcement under the bed. You will have to fab and weld a support for the mount to attach to as the bed floor won't take the weight of the pedestal and gun, let alone forces gereated from firing the weapon.

It would be a great project, even better if you can prove historical accuracy. I noticed the same thing last year after I got my M37. Went to a few shows and got little attention when there was a jeep with a 30cal a few vehicles down. Now that I have a pair of M60's, a fresh paint job and a sign to explain what the truck represents, there's a bit more traffic!


Glad you had a good time at Montogermy. I wanted to go, planned on going but a bout of the shingles got in the way.

[w30bob]

Hi Warren,

Wow....that's a sweet looking M!!! Are the door windows still functional, or does the armor plate replace the glass and go all the way into the door?

I hear ya about the reinforcement needed to support the gun and mount in the bed. That's part of the reason I asked if anyone had seen one, as if they did make them I might be able to find out what the reinforcement under the bed floor looked like. I did find a manual online last night that listed all the MG mounts for military vehicles that was dated 1945 I believe, that showed the reinforcements for each mount. It was a rather elaborate setup for each mount, not just a simple plate spanning the chassis rails, but more of a box type setup. Interesting stuff though!!

regards,
bob

[w30bob]

Warren,

I just found this on the internet. It was an old add from Hemmings Motor News. Doesn't say if it was real or not.....just implies they had M37 gun trucks in Korea. Maybe someone on this forum might know something about this.

regards,
bob



March Military Campaign- loaded for bear
1 comment



Dodge M-37s were one of the most utilized military vehicles during the Korean War era. With the same six-cylinder engine as the Plymouth cars and a heavy duty New Process transfer case, they proved they could take a beating. The 3/4-ton 4WD convertible was designed to replace the WWII WC series Dodge trucks and the military designation for them was G-741. They were replaced by the M-880 Dodge trucks in the mid-sixties.

I found this one a few months back for sale in the Hemmings classifieds:

1954 Dodge M37 Gun Truck – 230 flathead six cylinder, 4-speed manual transmission, four wheel drive, demilled .50 caliber Browning machine gun M2HB, demilled M1 Garand rifle, rear mounted pioneer kit, 24 volt with water -proof ignition, black out lighting, new correct canvas top, correct USMC lettering, new NDT tires, correct Marine Corp ship tie downs – Awesome Korean War era Gun Truck – Runs & Drives Excellent – New Paint & USMC Lettering – From The Collection of Local Military Vehicle Collector $16,500

[WarrenD]

I think I'd take issue with some of their "facts". M37s started production in 51 when the Korean war was well under way. The war ended in spring of 53. I'm sure there were many M37s there (includes all variants) but I don't think they were the most widely used. There were many, many WCs left from WW2.
As for the truck in the add, it's hard to say. The based truck, a 54, would not have been in Korea, nor would my base truck, built in March of 53 (not enough time to have gotten there!) People can do anything and represent it as real. Sadly, it seems that it becomes someone elses job to prove them wrong as opposed to them proving they are right.

Given that there were so few M37s with M2s mounted, I suspect (in the case of the guntrucks, I know) the re-enforcement was done in-country and was whatever the guy doing it thought would work. If it started coming loose, they'd add some beef. It would be interesting to know if the Army ever had an official design, I suspect not.

Thanks for your comments, the door armor is faux, panels that more or less rest on top of the door window when it's down. Being in CT I need to see when driving on the road and the door armor really restricts vision to the point of being unsafe. I also wanted to keep the windows functional as I have been caught in the rain and do drive it in colder temps.

[w30bob]

Warren,

Check out this link......it's to a discussion on M37 MG mounts from this forum. I found TM 9-2016 last night online and downloaded it at home. I don't fully understand where the MG mount lower section is mounting to on the truck.....but I'm sure it will become clear. What's interesting is that this TM lists the mount used for the M37 specifically.....so it looks like the Army had thought thru how to mount an MG on our trucks. How common it was I don't know.......but it appears not very.

http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3054

regards,
bob

[WarrenD]

Looks like you have a lot to go on. Consider signing on with SteelSoldiers.com and asking Mike how he was going to do his Nam GT. He goes by Maddawg308, he's a heck of a nice guy and knows his Nam stuff. Like you, he carefully researches his projects. I know he had to sell his M37 last year and I recall he also sold his M60's but he might still have the M2 and mount from his project. I think he still has the steel plate armor but I'd pass on that in favor of a lighter material (like what I used). If you aren't going to armor up, ignore that last part. He would likely have or know where to get the re-enforcment info.

I PM'd Mike, will let you know what he says.

[k8icu]

I'm not an expert on this but I've been around military vehicles for just about 30 years now and have read a lot of information over those years. I believe that officially no the army did not set up for the M2 to be used on the M37. Neither was it meant for the 1/4 tons (MB, M38, M38A1 or M151). It was meant for the 2.5 tons and 5tons with the ring mount. Along with armored vehicles. Unofficially in the field espcially in Vietnam GIs used what they could get their hands on and the more fire power they could get the better. I remember seeing a picture of a M37 with AF SP guys from VN (flight line security) that was taken from the nose of the truck looking towards the rear with the drive holding an M16, the passinger with a M79 and a M60 and a guy in the bed of the truck behind the pedistal mounted M2. The truck had the windshield removed and sandbags on the cowl. For the life of me I can't remember which book I say it in. I've read so many over the last 30 years. But I distinkly remember the picture and thought how cool it was.

If you want to put a M2 on your truck go for it. I did a quick websearch but didn't find anything. I can see the picture in my mind, but can't remember the book.

[w30bob]

Hi K8,

I hear ya brother......I suffer from an extreme case of CRS (Can't Remember S*%t). But if you ever do find that pic I'd love to see it.

thanks,
bob

[WarrenD]

Mike was going to use the 50 on an ACAV mount (per the real truck) so he doesn't have any info on the pedestal. Assuming you find the right one, you do know that they are expensive? You'll spend more on the mount than a gas operated 50.

[w30bob]

Hi Warren,

Yeah, I figured as much. I saw an add in the latest Supply Line from BMG (I think) and they listed the M37 mount for $599. That's just the mount. Add to that the cradle, support structure for the mount, and of course the gun and that's more than I paid for my M37. Just dreaming at this point, but I figure I'll do the research now just in case I decide I can afford to pull the trigger (literally) someday. Thanks again for your help.

regards,
bob

[UZIS9MM]

Gentlemen,
Here are some photos of M37s in Vietnam with various weapons mounts. As you can see the mounts look like they were field made rather than the official M24 pedestal mount.

The field made mounts looked like a plate that had a fabricated pedestal attached, then they slid the whole thing into the bed. That way they could take it out if needed, it wasn't limited to a single vehicle. They could switch vehicles if one was tied up at the motor pool, a modular design so to say.

There were plenty more photos but I thought these were the best, where the mounts are clearly seen and not obscured. Also there were quite a few more mounted M60s than there were M2s, so it looks like the sixty was the weapon of choice during the war.

Kevin

[UZIS9MM]

More M37s with weapons mounts.

[W_A_Watson_II]

Don't forget this thread from 2008: http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=850

[w30bob]

Wow.....great replies guys!! The link in the last post showed how the mounts I've been looking at are mounted in the bed. That's the part I couldn't figure out. I was thinking the "A" frame part was mounted UNDER the bed and was attached to the frame. Now I see exactly how it works.

THANKS!!!!

bob