Draft Pads Brake and Clutch

[MSeriesRebuild]

Charles at MSeriesrebuild: You are to be praised and complimented for your attitude on quality work in your shop.
It's apparent that you take pride in your work and value your reputation as a repair shop owner with a high degree
of integrity. Keeps the customers coming back. There's no better advertising than good referrals from satisfied
customers. Stay the course, maintain your high standards. You will continue to be a valued vendor.
Merry Christmas to all.
JB
Gilbert, AZ.

Merry Christmas to you. Your positive feedback is greatly appreciated, however I'm not looking for praise at all. I just want to run a straight up business. If it ever comes to the place where I feel I have to be less than 100% honest to stay in business; then I reckon I'd just have to face facts, and realize the time has come to close it down.

[Cal_Gary]

I am also considering the cut and glue install. My younger brother sliced a sidewall tire years ago and had no spare and no way of getting to a repair shop. He ended up crazy-gluing the tire, pumped in two cans of fix-a-flat and limped his ride home (a 64 Galaxie 500 of all things). That sold me on the strength of crazy-glue but I certainly would not do this as part of my professional business processes.
Gary

[powerwagontim]

Charles,
I fully understand where you are coming from, There are expedients I see all the time that I would never consider doing on one of my house renovation projects. I was at a point where I had no other option, so I took the glue route. I dont particularly care for it but I needed to get the seals on somehow. If someone makes them at some point that actually do work I will replace them.
Tim

[cuz]

Has anyone successfully got the repop seals on over the bottom of the pedal and up instead of over the top and down?

[wyowillys46]

I thought that's how they were supposed to be installed. You're saying everyone's been installing the NOS ones over the actual pedal and down?

[MSeriesRebuild]

Try it from the bottom up and let us know how you come out.

Actually you'll put more stress on the draft pad trying to install from the bottom than you will over the pad. Yes I've tried it; like I said, I don't think it to be humanly possible to try a method we haven't already tried, but I also believe in miracles, so I anxiously await your findings.

Let me add this however; every successful installation of a draft pad we have ever done was over the pad, (top down). That tells me pretty much what to expect with a bottom up installation attempt, but maybe your luck will be different. Keep us posted.

[cuz]

The bottom up is before the pedal is installed in the pivots. In the above discussions the main thrust is installing new pads during the restoration and not while the truck is in service. The bottom end certainly looks smaller in diameter than the pedal pad at the top. When the snow stops I'll take a measurement.

[Glenn]

I agree with Charles, I think trying to install them the correct way puts more stress on the pad. The new ones will almost stretch enough to go over the pedal end. But almost is it!

[WarrenD]

Tried the first one on the clutch, no joy, it ripped. Not completely in half, but enough. I had warmed it in hot tap water, and put some grease on the pedal sides but it didn't work. I'll get to the brake pedal sometime in the future but first I have to deal with the gas tank..... always something.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Tried the first one on the clutch, no joy, it ripped. Not completely in half, but enough. I had warmed it in hot tap water, and put some grease on the pedal sides but it didn't work. I'll get to the brake pedal sometime in the future but first I have to deal with the gas tank..... always something.

Same exact story I've heard 1,000 times, but "almost" far enough never works.

We have made certain not even a tiny burr was on the pedal pad that could cause an issue and anything else I could think of. Boiling, all kinds of rubber compatible lubricants, all failures with the new repros.

With NOS pads, removing pedal pad burrs, boiling the pads, pulling from the water and installing as quickly as possible brought us a 99% success rate. With repro's, a 0 success rate no matter how we tried it. The big issue is without doubt the material the new pads are made from, it will not stretch as advertised.

Measure from the bottom with a pedal removed from the bracket, it's worthless however. We have every piece apart during a restoration. I agree it does appear as if it could be installed easier from the bottom than it could over the pad, but appearance is deceiving because that is not true. Had one of the seller's tell me, oh you can't install them over the pad, they have to go on from the bottom. My next question was "have you installed one from the bottom?" Answer was no, but they won't stretch over the pedal pad. What he failed to tell me was they won't go on from the bottom either, and will actually rip quicker that way than from the top down. Next question, have you tried installing the new pads at all; no we haven't installed any. Do I believe that; NO. The first thing I would have done when I opened up the shipment was try one out, likely that is what happened there also.

If you took notice, when these repro pads were first advertised, it was to the effect, "new draft pads available, made of very stretchy material, not a problem to install and don't rip like the NOS pads." I expect others recall the ads also. I realized early on this was not true, I let the seller's know. The untruthful ads soon disappeared; however the inferior pads still continue to be sold today. No ads, but if you call in search of draft pads, they'll take your money and won't say a word. Go back on them; oh you just tried to do it wrong will be the reply. I hope someone discovers a secret to a successful installation method. Until then, if that ever does happen, all I can say is buy them at your own risk; as it will very likely be a waste of your $$.

[cuz]

Measure from the bottom with a pedal removed from the bracket, it's worthless however. We have every piece apart during a restoration. I agree it does appear as if it could be installed easier from the bottom than it could over the pad, but appearance is deceiving because that is not true. Had one of the seller's tell me, oh you can't install them over the pad, they have to go on from the bottom. My next question was "have you installed one from the bottom?" Answer was no, but they won't stretch over the pedal pad.

It is not real clear in the above paragraph. Has an attempt actually been made to install them from the bottom up on a pedal laying on the work bench and that attempt failed or is it just that a measurement was taken?

[MSeriesRebuild]

Measure from the bottom with a pedal removed from the bracket, it's worthless however. We have every piece apart during a restoration. I agree it does appear as if it could be installed easier from the bottom than it could over the pad, but appearance is deceiving because that is not true. Had one of the seller's tell me, oh you can't install them over the pad, they have to go on from the bottom. My next question was "have you installed one from the bottom?" Answer was no, but they won't stretch over the pedal pad.

It is not real clear in the above paragraph. Has an attempt actually been made to install them from the bottom up on a pedal laying on the work bench and that attempt failed or is it just that a measurement was taken?

It has been made clear, or at least I thought so. If you look back to a post I did yesterday, I said I had tried it both top and bottom. Certainly any attempt could not be made to install from the bottom unless the pedal was removed from the bracket and on the bench or secured in a vise.

What I was attempting to say in the post today was that a measurement is no good in my eyes, reason is we have already tried installing from the bottom numerous ways and times with a 100% failure rate. What good is measuring? It's already been proven that installing from the bottom or any other way as far as I know doesn't work with the repro.

I'm still game to listen, try it and let us know.

[cuz]

I prefer to learn by other folks errors and misfortunes. Before I try it with my money I want to gather as much info as possible. As the rate and volume of the banter increases it becomes more difficult to find the root answer that I seek.

So far I have been able to decipher the following:

You have tried it many times from both ends and neither works. I assume these results are with the repops?

The NOS that you tried to install that failed. Can you tell us which end the failed attempts occurred on? About how old were these NOS seals you were trying? Assuming of course you had their original packaging.

[MSeriesRebuild]

The failures with repros have been 100%, didn't matter which end of the pedal or how we tried to approach the installation.

The NOS ones were over a period of many years extending from the time we started building trucks until there were no more NOS ones available. It went like this; every once in a while we would have one to rip. Age didn't seem to be a huge factor in the success or failure rate. I recall some of the newer NOS ones with a 70's date that failed. Also installed many from the 50's that went on just great using the boiling in water method. I'd say our success rate installing NOS pads was better than 95%. I never tried installing one from the bottom before the seller's of the repro's said that was the only way to do it; and of course as I said it does not work, and after all, why would anyone with a 95% plus success rate want to change a method that worked very well. I just figured I'd give the seller the benefit of the doubt in this case, so we tried from the bottom up. I don't recall where, but it is in print in one of the manuals that the draft pads are to be installed over the pedal pad from the top down. I've read it numerous times.

The NOS pads were made of thin material, handled and prepped correctly, it worked. The repro's are made of thicker material than the NOS, it has very little stretch at all, thus it will just simply rip when you try to make it stretch.

I think we've covered this one enough. I hope I've clearly answered all you have ask of me on my findings concerning them.

I still want to talk to the first person who puts one on successfully, so if that is you, please call me, I'd love to discuss your method with you.

Let me say this also; when the repro pads came available, I purchased a lot in some volume. I was really glad they had come available. When I found out that they were impossible to install, the seller did tell me to send them back, and he gave us a 100% refund for the whole lot. For this I commend him, I just don't understand why they continue to be sold as a good product.

[powerwagontim]

It would be interesting to hear either John from Midwest Military or someone from VPW chime in on this subject with their thoughts.
Tim