What Camshaft are you running?

[T. Highway]

I've got the engine out of my M and getting it ready to go to the machine shop.

What camshaft are you guys running?
Stock?
Aftermarket?

What are the advantages or disadvantages of both? I know that technology has changed quite a bit since 1952 and I just want to know if this is worth looking into.

Thanks in advance for your comments.
Bert

[Lifer]

I would imagine pretty much everyone is running a stock cam. The T-245 is, after all, a long-stroke low-compression engine. I could be wrong, but I don't think a guy would gain much by fiddling with the cam.

[Carter]

I was given 4 NOS ones in the orig. wrap by the National Guard maintenance unit I was a member of so that's what I used in my engine and also Ralph's when I rebuilt it last winter.

[MSeriesRebuild]

I'm considering doing a different grind on a cam for a 230 we are building. I'll let you know when I get it figured out and about the outcome, what I'm after is more torque with this one.

[T. Highway]

Charles, That is exactly what my goal is. I'll be running larger than stock tires ( 11.00x 16 Mich XLs) and didn't want to sacrifice the low end torque. I was looking at the Hi Perf cam offered on the VPW site but I'll need to call them to see what kind of grind this has.

What is the timeframe for your engine build?

[Lifer]

AHA! I "assumed" (and we all know what happens next).

Anyway, in my experience everyone who has ever fiddled with their cams were after top-end performance. Speed was what they wanted. I never thought of someone wanting to do it in order to get more grunt. Good luck to you guys, and I'll be watching to see how it turns out.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Charles, That is exactly what my goal is. I'll be running larger than stock tires ( 11.00x 16 Mich XLs) and didn't want to sacrifice the low end torque. I was looking at the Hi Perf cam offered on the VPW site but I'll need to call them to see what kind of grind this has.

What is the timeframe for your engine build?

I'm looking at right away, the block is going to the machine shop this afternoon, I'm thinking the next couple of weeks hopefully.

[T. Highway]

Good deal Charles. I was going to call VPW in the next couple of days to get more details. I will just call you to discuss grind details to see if they make sense.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Good deal Charles. I was going to call VPW in the next couple of days to get more details. I will just call you to discuss grind details to see if they make sense.

I'll be happy to share specs with you once we have it figured out.

[T. Highway]

I did more research on this.

Here are some specs that I've been able to find on the internet in the VPW site.

Early Stock M37 camshaft:

Intake & Exhaust
Separation angle = 108.9 Degrees ( Cam )

Intake
Valve opening = -5.6 BTDC
Lobe center = 109 ATDC
Valve Closure = 32.6 ABDC
Duration = 207.1 Crank Degrees
Net Valve Lift = .37197 Inches

Exhaust
Valve opening = 32.1 BBDC
Lobe center = 108.8 BTDC
Valve closure = -5.6 ATDC
Duration = 206.5 Crank Degrees
Net Valve Lift = .3711 Inches

Keep in mind that the Crankshaft rotates 2 degrees for each one degree of Camshaft rotation.
Early Camshafts were measured @ .050" of lifter rise before the spec was measured. This has been changed now in most modern programs to be measured @ close to close so that they can show larger numbers. ( The typical mindset is that bigger numbers are better) I have found a couple of programs that allow you to spec how you want the numbers to graph, so that you can compare data accurately.
I also played with the (duration, CR, lift and angle) numbers in a camshaft spec program but its hard to get definitive answer with such an old flathead engine. I've gathered some new data but will wait to post the findings until I can get some replies to my questions below.
From my past experience I've found that you want more duration ( Valve open time) for a higher RPM engine to let more air flow in and out time. Typically a low RPM engine will suffer a power loss from too much duration.
1.) I need to know if anyone here has heard of a gentleman that was regrinding M37 cams for a higher torque ( RV Style ) grind? I have found a name and it may be misspelled: George Asche but I have no contact info on what he was offering. Is anyone out there running one of his cams or have any old literature?
2.) I need to know if anyone out there has a Factory camshaft (still in the origninal manufacturers wrapper) that is dated near the end of the production of M37s.

Please post openly here or send me a PM.

I hope I didn't bore anyone.
Bert

[T. Highway]

Thanks for the PMs.
I talked with George A. for 30 minutes on Friday and he was a wealth of information about Flathead Dodge engines. We talked about clearances, cams, heads, exhaust. I will share more later.

[T. Highway]

I've had in depth conversations with George A. (of PA), Earl E. (of CA), Charles (of M-Series) and others about camshaft specs.
George has custom cams and shaved heads in stock, Earl custom grinds cams to exactly what you want in his own shop. Both George and Earl have raced with these old flat heads and have both pushed them well over 100 MPH. (Of course not in an M37)
Both George and Earl have sold custom cams to people for their M37s.

Here are custom cam grind specs to give more torque at a low rpm range but not make the engine lope at idle.

Keep in mind that this duration is measured at .050" of lift. Minimum 220 / 225 maximum. You will reap the benefit of a faster opening valve without having too much valve overlap that will rob power in low RPM engines. (A late stock 230 cam is about 200-205)

Lift: .375" - .400" If you try more than .400" of lift you will have an engine that lopes at idle. Remember to have at least .050" of valve clearance to the head.

Another consideration is more air flow in (dual carbs) and out (headers / larger exhaust pipe).

I will also be shaving the head down about .060" to pick up a little more power but will be keeping the orignal carberator. I will be going with slightly larger diameter exhaust pipe and muffler.

I've shipped a cam to Earl and will post what I think of the results.

If anyone would like the phone numbers of these guys please send me a PM.

[Joe]

What's happened with this in the past year?

How much did milling the head help? I thought that since the original engine only used 6.2 to 1 Compression Ratio, that with modern gasoline we should be able to raise that considerable and still use regualr fuel. I'm wondering how much we can raise the CR and still use regular fuel and how much power that would add and what other effects it might have on the engine.

What kind of cam did you finally get and how did it work?

ALSO I've been wondering about mods to the M-37 engine, particularly something to allow it to rev a little higher and get a bit more than 50 MPH out of the M-37. But I've been told that one of the major limitations to the engine is that it's very unbalanced and that's why it's rev limited to 2200(?) RPM. If so what would it take to better balance the engine and high much faster can it then be safely rev'd? I'm not necessarily looking for more power but I would like to do something to enable the M-37 to go a bit faster. I figured that some of the old timers that used to race this motors would know a lot more on this subject.

[MSeriesRebuild]

The 230 in an M37 should turn 3200 RPM. In all our builds; we balance all the rods using gram scales, we then rotationally balance the rotating assembly with the flywheel and pressure plate attached. All this makes a build more expensive than the $700 miracles we see discussed from time to time; but what do you want, a good performing engine you can count on, or the miracle cure that all of a sudden we just don't hear being discussed any further when bypassed issues start to surface.

Nothing done well is cheap these days, custom engine builds that perform are no different.

The question was raised about more speed and not so much emphasis on power. Well, it's much easier to get more torque out of a 230 than it is more top end speed. If you are serious about rolling faster down the highway; other engine options may be something you will want to consider.

[Joe]

How fast (RPM) it safe to run one of the 230 engines after it's been balanced? How out of balance are they originally??? I'm under the impression that they very badly out of balance from the factory. I've considered re-engining it but everything in this one is very original and it would a be shame to alter it. BUT I would like to find a second M-37 (or better yet a Power Wagon) and put a newer drive train in it.