Powder Coating

[MikeOneSix]

Fellows
It's been a couple of weeks since I got my battery boxes (for my ferret) back from the powder coat shop. They look brand new . While I was in there, I noticed a truck axle housing that was also PC'd and inquired as to how big an oven did they have and what's the largest item they could do?

They told me that their oven is 10' wide X 24' long and that they could do truck frames easily. They told me to do the frame on my M37, it would set me back about a $1000.00. Has anyone had the frame on their "M" powder coated?

Powder coating the frame and or axle housings, is this a good or bad idea? What's your opinion?

Matt

[ZGjethro]

wrote:
>
I bought powder coated rock sliders for my SUV about eight years ago. They are developing a rust problem where huge flakes are rusting off. I blame the magnesium cloride they use on our roads in Colorado. I expected a tougher finish.

[DAP]

I did about 4 years ago. They PC frame with axle housing and springs hung on it. They sand blasted everything to white metal and then powdercoated it all. I waited until their slowest time of year and they used it as a filler project when they had guys standing around (they had frame for 4 weeks) so they cut me a good price on it all ($600). The owner wants to buy my truck if I ever sell it, LOL. When I got the frame assembly back I pulled all the seals (I had drained all the oil in the diffs before sending it) and replaced them. Oh, and with the axles and diff out removed from the axle housings (after it was PC) I also cleaned the inside of the housings with mineral spirits to remove dirt/sand that might have wormed inside. The heat from doing the PC didn't seem to effect the red coating on the inside of the axle housings. The PC guy said that the PC (I chose gloss black) will last as good as paint as long as it doesn't get UV exposure. Not much chance of that on the frame but he said if I top coat it with a good quality paint that will protect it from UV. The nice thing about PC right after sandblasting is that I didn't have to take time off and spend 3 days priming and painting truck so it wouldn't rerust. Since the frame sat in the garage I could take my time painting over the PC in the areas I thought it might be expsoed to UV. There is a wide variety of opions about PC. Some love it, some hate it. For the frame and undersides of cab I went with PC since it gets minimal UV and I am going to spray it with undercoating when finished anyway. Sides and upper surfaces all got Corlar and Imron.

[MikeOneSix]

The fab shop that I use to do all my (media) blasting and painting is not a fan of powder coating. The owner told me that if moisture can get behind the PC (through a crack in the coating?) the item you've PC'd can actually start rusting away underneith the powder coating. He also said that PC is impervious to sand blasting which makes me wonder how people remove the old powder coating from what ever it is they're restoring? I am most likely going to do the M37's battery box in PC, if nothing else.
Matt

[Tom @ Snake River]

ON my battery boxes, I always cut a piece of rubber belting to fit in the bottom. It really helps to keep the acid from getting on the metal.

[MikeOneSix]

Tom
I'll probably do the same thing as well. Can never have to much protection..

Matt

[Wayne64]

4 thumbs down on powder coating a frame, or diffs for that matter on a M37. And I have powder coated myself and got great results. This was done on museum quality restorations that didn't see the road much. As was previous stated once moisture gets under the plastic (which is what the coating is BTW) you end up with traveling rust that isn't visible until it flakes off. Click on the link in my signature and go to the 72 Triumph. I personally PC-d all parts with the exception of the tank and fenders. Basically it's the owners call and if it is going to be a hanger queen, go for it. JMHO

[W_A_Watson_II]

Any rock chip will allow moisture to penetrate and start the rusting under the PC. My trailer was PC'ed and the rocks have done a number on the coating.

[MSeriesRebuild]

MSeriesRebuild wrote:
> wrote:
> > Well fellows all I can say here is you need to look for a powder coater
> > that does quality work. I say this because we have been through several
> > coaters who did substandard prep, plus some let it sit around until surface
> > rust started before coating. In that case the result will be the same as
> > with any paint, once rust is allowed to form, it doesn't stop regardless of
> > the coating. Another huge reason rust and eventual flaking off is a
> > problem is because of incomplete or thin powder coverage. This is caused
> > by 1 of several issues; improperly prepared bare metal, or by a slack
> > person applying powder who simply is not paying attention and assuring
> > complete and ample coverage, cheap powder, insufficient or otherwise
> > improper curing. As far as cracking, it simply has not been an issue at
> > all for us since we got settled with a coater who takes pride in offering
> > the best workmanship. Whom ever said powder coat is impervious to sand
> > blasting is as full of it as the Christmas turkey. While the very nature
> > of it is to be tougher than wet coating systems; of course it will take
> > more aggressive blasting action to remove it than other paints as it
> > should, but yes it can certainly be blasted off. Someone mentioned stone
> > chipping during normal service; the fact is a well done powder job using
> > Quality powder on a well prepped surface is WAY more chip resistant than
> > the very best wet coat system. A well prepped surface is just that, you
> > know the drill; the prep is 99% of any paint job in general appearance and
> > quality, enough said there. Other issues to be considered are the quality
> > of the powder, (there is cheap and premium quality powder just like with
> > any paint), the quality of the application and curing equipment, (this
> > makes a huge difference), the attitude of the person running the equipment,
> > (ever see a wet coat job done by a careless painter)? The UV factor is the
> > same as with any other paint, the cheap stuff vs the best quality, the
> > better quality powder is far more uv resistant. Certain color shades, (the
> > same as any other paint) are more susceptable to fading, etc than others;
> > powder is no different. Clear coat powder can be applied over color coats
> > the same as modern wet coat systems. Just as with wet coatings, this
> > virtually eliminates the UV factor from the equasion. Careful reading of
> > powder manufacturer recommendations will reveal whether clear coat is
> > recommended; with some color shades it will be a must have while others
> > will leave it open as an option. Another plus is the fact powder will be
> > drawn into areas you will never access with wet coating because the
> > component is electrically charged during powder application; powder goes to
> > the piece like iron to a magnet.
> >
> > My suggestion is that you ask questions to see whether blasting / coating
> > contractors are really up to snuff on products and the workmanship they
> > offer. We have found that some try to sell with price rather than quality;
> > my point here is they buy the cheapest powder they can and have a guy
> > applying powder with dime store equipment, who doesn't give a rip about
> > anything except working a couple of weeks so he can get back to drawing a
> > new stretch of unemployment benefits, in an effort to quote a cheaper
> > priced job; while bashing the contractor across town for charging higher
> > prices for a job done right. This is happening in a huge way these days,
> > put the pressure on and let bidders know what you expect and will accept
> > before closing a deal. Knowing what you are talking about so you can
> > intelligently seek out the best before you go is a plus. Here's an example
> > we ran into, think about it; I walked in on a contractor who was working
> > for us unannounced one time. He had blasted the parts and they were
> > waiting to be coated; some parts had spotches of OD green still on the
> > metal the size of dimes.. When I demanded an explaination, his reply was we
> > can smooth over all that with powder, you'll never see it. What he failed
> > to tell me was that I might not see it until those areas where the metal
> > was not blasted clean started to flake off. This is assured simply because
> > of what the heat curing process does to the old paint that was left behind.
> > Could this have happened to you guys who mentioned flaking issues? Other
> > stuff I inspected during the visit had started to surface rust slightly,
> > the guy's answer for that was we are going to get it coated as soon as we
> > can before that gets any worse; if you can believe that one. Never a
> > mention of reblasting to remove the newly formed surface rust. How dumb
> > did he think I was? Good question; I told him that he and I both had lost
> > money on the job, I wrote him a check to cover the cost of the sand he used
> > to blast the stuff; loaded up the parts and told him I wouldn't be back.
> >
> > How well have you done your homework? I would almost bet those who have
> > had bad experiences with powder coating have fallen victim to some of these
> > very issues I've brought to light. Bottom line, if we had not had
> > fantastic results with powder coating, I wouldn't use it on our builds,
> > plan and simple. I'll have to give an honest opinion, I really feel you
> > are selling short one of the best quality coating systems available today
> > for what ever reason. After years in the grading/construction field, I saw
> > dump truck beds that were powder coated when new while others were wet
> > coated. Taking a look at the powder coated ones after being in service a
> > few years; well there was no comparision with the way it held up as
> > compared to the ones that had wet coat paint.

[DAP]

Charles is right. The reason I like my powder coater is he does heavy duty machinery commercial work and the powder is not thin. He once showed me a piece he had finished and whailed on it with a hammer and it didn't even leave a mark. He said it will start to break down if left outside for 8-10 years in constant UV exposure. So would I with that treatment. He also works my jobs in around other things. When they have another job that is using gloss black he sand blasts it all and then PC it all. that is why sometimes I get it back in a week sometimes 6 weeks - LOL. I don't have the same pressure Charles does to finish since mine is a hobby. My PC guy says he will work with me and give me a good price as long as I am not in a hurry. If I want it blasted and coated right away it will cost me more. I just had a Pioneer trailer blasted (only since I wanted to do other work on it) and he had it for 8 weeks before he blasted it do to other big money jobs. That is OK with me. Many can't wait like that - I can. Plus he is 6 miles away so it is very handy. Oh and the bad news is he said not to give his name out unless they want to pay full price. Sorry guys.

[MikeOneSix]

So from what I can gather, some people like powder coating while others on here don't. That's fine. I happen to like the job that the PC guy did on my ferret's battery boxes and steering wheel. As where it (powder coating) pertains to my M37, I'm not sure how much or how little I'll have coated. Good news is I've got a good bit of time to figure it out as the ferret is taking up all my free time & available cash. The guy at the place I've used did mention that they can do some custom color (color matching?) work so if I wanted something in OD or desert sand, they can do it.
Matt

[Wayne64]

wrote:
> Please don't take my post as a total negative on PC. My only concern is
> the placement of powder coating. As you can see in the below picture I do
> indeed like it on an all steel dash. But for a frame or diff housing I
> still say "not me" unless it's a show only M37. I may be the
> wrong person to give an opinion as I work my M37.
>
>
>

[Master Yota]

Powder Coating, just like everything else has its place. Charles summed it up nicely, and I have nothing to really add, other than it dosen't tend to work well on flexible items. Powder coating leaf springs is a waste of money, as the spring flexes it will break the bond that the PC has on it, causing it to flake off. I would imagine that the PC would flake off of a frame that sees alot of usage and flexes in certain spots, as the M37 frames do. Otherwise, its all about the quality of the materials and the prepwork. I've painted frames and axles for years, and never had any cause to make me change my mind on doing it again. Plus I usually topcoat with a good underbody coating and then forget about it. The only time my frames spend in the sun is when the truck is upside down - and in that case I usually have bigger issues to deal with...

[MikeOneSix]

[quote="Master Yota"]Powder Coating, just like everything else has its place. Charles summed it up nicely, and I have nothing to really add, other than it dosen't tend to work well on flexible items. Powder coating leaf springs is a waste of money, as the spring flexes it will break the bond that the PC has on it, causing it to flake off. I

I was thinking (well, wondering) that very same thing myself.

Powder coating is tough but it's not Chuck Norris tough. He smashed the periotic table of the elements.....Because Chuck Norris only recognizes the element of surprise
Matt

[MSeriesRebuild]

On show quality jobs we have blasted and coated each spring leaf individually, it has turned out and held up super well. About the only way to prevent rust weeping from between the leaves.