Hardener or not?

[HingsingM37]

As I close in on my trucks paint job here in the next few weeks I have a dilema. My good friend who has the body shop where we will be painting the rig insist on using some type of hardener in the paint. Now I know that hardener usually glosses up the finish more. My paint which is a Sherwin Williams industrial enamel (they copied the 24087 sample) already has just enough gloss. I know the hardener will toughen up the paint finish, but this is an MV, not a show car. I am hesitant to use the enamel hardener. Opinions please?

[Glenn]

Did your paint supplier give you any activator to mix with your paint?

[HingsingM37]

No, The paint series is basically a stand alone machinery enamel. There is an activator/hardener available but it is not usually used with the paint they made for me according to my sales rep.

[Glenn]

I've never used anything other than what the paint supplier has given me, which has always had a harderner or activator. Hmmm, tough call on this one. Did they say the activator will make it glossy? It might not have the affect you're thinking it will.

[MSeriesRebuild]

I'm with your painter on the hardner, however if what he wants to use is not a part of the Sherwin-Williams system you are using, I would recommend against its use. Hardner usually glosses out the paint some more, especially urethane paints. What you are using sounds like older synthetic enamel, I doubt if you would see much difference at all with the gloss in that type of paint. If it were me, I would want to use hardner clearly for the durability effect, I would get the recommended product for the given paint from that paint supplier. This way you have a leg to stand on if something were to go chemically wrong. If you let your paint guy add in something he has sitting around, and something didn't come out right, your paint supplier will not stand behind his product. Rightfully so as he has no idea what was blended in or anything about its compatibility with the paint. Another real draw back is that some chemical reaction may not show during or immediately after the paint job, it can show up 6 months or a year after the fact. Not worth the risk in my opinion.

[Lifer]

All these modern paint options are enough to boggle the mind! Kind of makes a feller long for the "good" ol' days when there was only one option...lead-based enamel. We can't have that, though, 'cuz we might suffer permanent brain damage from licking our trucks.

[cuz]

You left out lacquer for the rub on / rub off crowd! When I was in the service the bulk of the paint we had in spray bombs was lacquer.

[Oddjob]

All these modern paint options are enough to boggle the mind! Kind of makes a feller long for the "good" ol' days when there was only one option...lead-based enamel. We can't have that, though, 'cuz we might suffer permanent brain damage from licking our trucks.

and isn't it funny the paint lasted longer too...

If it's not designed for that paint system I wouldn't do it... It's to sketchy especially after all the prep...

[m-37Bruce]

No, The paint series is basically a stand alone machinery enamel. There is an activator/hardener available but it is not usually used with the paint they made for me according to my sales rep.

Isn't there a Matting agent available?

[MSeriesRebuild]

All these modern paint options are enough to boggle the mind! Kind of makes a feller long for the "good" ol' days when there was only one option...lead-based enamel. We can't have that, though, 'cuz we might suffer permanent brain damage from licking our trucks.

There is much truth to this, current day paint systems and chemicals in general are mind boggling to say the least. That is exactly why it is SO IMPORTANT that us common folks don't try to become junior chemist and blend a mixture we think ought to work just great. Paint manufacturer's spend millions to find out what will and what won't. Issues come up all the time, of course everyone rushes to call the paint rep when they do. Their FAVORITE line, you included something that was not part of our system, any liability on their part just waved bye-bye. The fact that maybe what you decided to use in the paint should have had no adverse effect at all; well that means NOTHING at this point. Well it was just common old industrial enamel you may say, thing is, we have no idea what common old industrial enamel is made up of anymore. Bottom line, mix whatever you want, it's your time and $$, although chances are better than real good that you will have a problem with today's products. The guy at the paint store likely doesn't have any more real time answers as to why this and that than you do, HOWEVER, he should have the facts about what works with his product line. Proceeding in accordance with the facts he can provide is your best bet, in fact in today's world, it is simply the only wise thing.

[MikeOneSix]

My paint which is a Sherwin Williams industrial enamel

I find that you purchased your paint , an industrial enamel for your M37 at Sherwin Williams interesting. For MVs, I've always used Gillespie coatings. I have a ferret that I'm trying to color match the original British "No.381 light stone" shade of tan on. I used a local auto parts place that mixes automotive grade paint and they did an excelent job in matching the paint even adding a "flatening agent" to the mix so it wouldn't be glossy. The quality of their paint though, leaves a good bit to be desired. It's thin, scratches easy and is difficult to apply when compared with the Gillespie products. it is also $70.00 a gallon compared to Gillespie's $32.50. Think I'll take a paint sample with me down to the Sherwin Williams store tomorrow and see what they can do. Thank you for giving me that idea.
Matt

[MSeriesRebuild]

My paint which is a Sherwin Williams industrial enamel

I find that you purchased your paint , an industrial enamel for your M37 at Sherwin Williams interesting. For MVs, I've always used Gillespie coatings. I have a ferret that I'm trying to color match the original British "No.381 light stone" shade of tan on. I used a local auto parts place that mixes automotive grade paint and they did an excelent job in matching the paint even adding a "flatening agent" to the mix so it wouldn't be glossy. The quality of their paint though, leaves a good bit to be desired. It's thin, scratches easy and is difficult to apply when compared with the Gillespie products. it is also $70.00 a gallon compared to Gillespie's $32.50. Think I'll take a paint sample with me down to the Sherwin Williams store tomorrow and see what they can do. Thank you for giving me that idea.
Matt

You will find that color variations come with many other variations. Some colors simply by nature do not cover as well as others. In automotive paints, quality varies greatly. What I mean here is for a lesser cost, you can buy a product that has a lesser solids content, thus it takes more coats to get the desired coverage. That sounds like what you got. It's nothing but a price gimmick, they say you are getting a good product at a lesser cost. What you really get is a $70 a gallon paint, rather than the better quality paint at $135 per gallon. The issue is this, it takes 4 coats of the cheaper priced paint to get the job you could easily do with 2 - 3 coats of the higher cost paint. Savings, none at all, it takes more product to complete the job, likely ends up costing more, for certain if time is included. Also more chance of an error. NAPA did this a few years back with the Cross Fire line from Martin-Senour Paints. They offered it to me, price sounded attractive, but if you know me, right here is where I stopped to ask questions. After just a couple of minutes I said wait just a minute. You mean the difference is the solids content in the paint, you got it he said. I then said it ain't for me. The thought here is to sell this cheaper stuff to body shops doing insurance jobs, small areas such as a fender, you can lay on multiple coats quickly and be cost effective doing it resulting in a cost savings to all except the insurance company. Do this on an entire vehicle, and count up your losses in $$ and the quality of the finished job.

[M-Thrax]

delete

[MikeOneSix]

I find that you purchased your paint , an industrial enamel for your M37 at Sherwin Williams interesting. For MVs, I've always used Gillespie coatings. I have a ferret that I'm trying to color match the original British "No.381 light stone" shade of tan on. I used a local auto parts place that mixes automotive grade paint and they did an excelent job in matching the paint even adding a "flatening agent" to the mix so it wouldn't be glossy. The quality of their paint though, leaves a good bit to be desired. It's thin, scratches easy and is difficult to apply when compared with the Gillespie products. it is also $70.00 a gallon compared to Gillespie's $32.50. Think I'll take a paint sample with me down to the Sherwin Williams store tomorrow and see what they can do. Thank you for giving me that idea.
Matt

You will find that color variations come with many other variations. Some colors simply by nature do not cover as well as others. In automotive paints, quality varies greatly. What I mean here is for a lesser cost, you can buy a product that has a lesser solids content, thus it takes more coats to get the desired coverage. That sounds like what you got. It's nothing but a price gimmick, they say you are getting a good product at a lesser cost. What you really get is a $70 a gallon paint, rather than the better quality paint at $135 per gallon. The issue is this, it takes 4 coats of the cheaper priced paint to get the job you could easily do with 2 - 3 coats of the higher cost paint. Savings, none at all, it takes more product to complete the job, likely ends up costing more, for certain if time is included. Also more chance of an error. NAPA did this a few years back with the Cross Fire line from Martin-Senour Paints. [/quote]

Charles the problem is the poorer quality paint (IMHO) is the more expensive one. Gillespie is $32.50 a gal and gets the job done where as the stuff from the auto parts place is $70.00 a gal and doesn't do as well.
Matt

[HingsingM37]

M37 Bruce: Matting Agent?

Mike One Six: No, not at the Sherwin Williams Paint store . It was matched by the Krylon/Spray-on Industrial side of Sherwin Williams. I had told my rep (we sell Krylon/Spray On at work) that Aervoe discontinued the 24087 and he offered to help. Those folks at the Sherwin Williams retail stores would not have a clue, other than to help soccer moms find wall paint and those goofy texture sponges .

Here is the Krylon paint on my front clip:
http://www.g741.org/photogallery/main.p ... temId=5609

Speaking of the good old paint days...I remember in high school auto shop painting a Ford Capri with the instructor. The masks we used perhaps did not have quite the organic vapor rating they shoud have, that with a lack of proper ventilation left us quite stoned.....

Charles, thanks for the input. I was wondering about post-painting effects with age and sunlight with a generic hardener.
That being said, I am going to procure a quart of the Krylon branded hardener and test fire the paint on the rear fenders and running boards to test the gloss factor. I guess this makes the most sense right now. We'll keep our fingers crossed.