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Moderators: Cal_Gary, T. Highway, Monkey Man, robi
The US Congress is already to this point.In a situation where a Politician can be so powerful and disconnected with reality they will become the "We Know Whats Better For you Than you Do" elitist who don't care about the purpose of the Government or what it does to the country
I don't think that would be a solution.Lifer wrote: Perhaps we should adopt Argentina's compulsory voting law. Then, we'd have a government that more closely represented "we the people."
War is partly to blame for this current depression, given the uncontrolled spending of the previous administration's need for "occupation" of sandy countrys...cuz wrote:The US Congress is already to this point.In a situation where a Politician can be so powerful and disconnected with reality they will become the "We Know Whats Better For you Than you Do" elitist who don't care about the purpose of the Government or what it does to the country
Franklin Roosevelt tried to buy his way out of a depression and failed. It was WWII that created the necessary impetus for the economic boom we needed.
The current buyouts by the US Government have only saved the reputation of many banks and kept them solvent. It has done nothing to slow or stop the downward spiral. I am afraid the real economic boom we need will come from the same source, A WAR!
Very close to what I think about the world economic situation today.Master Yota wrote:War is partly to blame for this current depression, given the uncontrolled spending of the previous administration's need for "occupation" of sandy countrys...
A war of the same magnitude of WWII today wouldn't help the economy one bit. WWII put people to work building the infrastructure of war in North America. Being as that infrastrure is already there, and stockpiled - nothing economically would change. The technology of war today make putting the average ludite on an assembly line rather moot. Running a rivet gun and putting a P51 Mustang together is alot easier than the ultra-skills needed to put an F22 Raptor together.
Putting limits on corporate credit, changing the tax structure to force the rich to pay more than the middle class, and ending unproductive wars would go much farther in bringing us back into the black again IMO...
Don't really see government spending on a localized war effort as a source for US economic failure. There's no math to support your point. Economic slumps or depressions are rarely the result of one issue. In this case lop sided international trade deals, resulting job loss from industry moves out of the US, lack of spending capability of the unemployed middle man, big time financial speculation and corrupted banking are the primary causes of the recession we are in. There is no such thing as "Uncontrolled Government Spending" ! There is a lot of misdirected funding in government but at all times the Congress of the US has complete control of it's spending. Anyone who doesn't believe that should try to take control of it themselves!!! The government would have them in irons in no time.War is partly to blame for this current depression, given the uncontrolled spending of the previous administration's need for "occupation" of sandy countrys...
US economic indicators have risen during and after every war. It's a fact of life that wars generate jobs.A war of the same magnitude of WWII today wouldn't help the economy one bit.
Don't fool yourself. Robotics and other modern assembly line innovations have simply realigned the skills needed. I experienced the low skill level of industry issues first hand in the mid eighties when we were getting our brand new B-1's at Ellsworth AFB SD. All our weapon bays had fuel tank leaks. We traced the issue back to the factory at Palmdale where the Rose' riveters thought that shooting rivets wet meant dipping them in water instead of sealant! The bulk of assembly line work is handled by anyone with a 5th grade reading level or higher.Running a rivet gun and putting a P51 Mustang together is alot easier than the ultra-skills needed to put an F22 Raptor together.
I find this phrase interesting. Having spent 22 years in America's War Machine I feel qualified to say that I think war sucks! But as long as one single country or group of people feel it is necessary for them to take by force what they want we will not have peace on this planet. The only defense against those who wish to harm you is strength and the balls to employ it. In my opinion all wars are unproductive or counter-productive. Neighborhoods, States and Countries do not organize themselves and elect governments to turn their cheeks and take it laying down. The populace hires a government to protect and serve! No matter how misguided the Bush administration tried to do just that. I have seen no evidence that the current administration can provide any protection and the service they are selling is one that is designed to make the populace ever more dependent on the government which eventually leads us down the merry road to several great orders such as Facism, Socialism, Communism and Dictatorships.ending unproductive wars
Don't really see government spending on a localized war effort as a source for US economic failure. There's no math to support your point. Economic slumps or depressions are rarely the result of one issue. In this case lop sided international trade deals, resulting job loss from industry moves out of the US, lack of spending capability of the unemployed middle man, big time financial speculation and corrupted banking are the primary causes of the recession we are in. There is no such thing as "Uncontrolled Government Spending" ! There is a lot of misdirected funding in government but at all times the Congress of the US has complete control of it's spending. Anyone who doesn't believe that should try to take control of it themselves!!! The government would have them in irons in no time.War is partly to blame for this current depression, given the uncontrolled spending of the previous administration's need for "occupation" of sandy countrys...
US economic indicators have risen during and after every war. It's a fact of life that wars generate jobs.A war of the same magnitude of WWII today wouldn't help the economy one bit.
Don't fool yourself. Robotics and other modern assembly line innovations have simply realigned the skills needed. I experienced the low skill level of industry issues first hand in the mid eighties when we were getting our brand new B-1's at Ellsworth AFB SD. All our weapon bays had fuel tank leaks. We traced the issue back to the factory at Palmdale where the Rose' riveters thought that shooting rivets wet meant dipping them in water instead of sealant! The bulk of assembly line work is handled by anyone with a 5th grade reading level or higher.Running a rivet gun and putting a P51 Mustang together is alot easier than the ultra-skills needed to put an F22 Raptor together.
This has always been the battle cry of the liberal. Make the rich pay for the folks who can't seem to make as much money as they would like too. Well I'm not rich but I don't need to suck anybodies Johnson to feed my family. I use an age old system called "Git up off your dufff and go out and get ahead in the world on your own two legs!" Now had you said "Let's make the tax system equal!!! that means a flat rate tax. 1% from every American no matter what income level and 1% from every company and corporation would solve uncle's debt problem very quickly and treat all Americans as equals. I'm all for that. But to tell me that the more initiative I apply to my economic well being and resulting money I make the higher percentage of it I have to pay as taxes is definately not a fair game in my book.changing the tax structure to force the rich to pay more than the middle class,
I find this phrase interesting. Having spent 22 years in America's War Machine I feel qualified to say that I think war sucks! But as long as one single country or group of people feel it is necessary for them to take by force what they want we will not have peace on this planet.ending unproductive wars
That may be what having control means to you. The accepted meaning is simply controlling the money. If you want to clarify the manner of their money controlling then you must do as I did and seperate the act of controlling and the art of applying sound judgement. They are entirely seperate issues.Having control of the money means making "wise" usage of it.
Try to remember exactly what I said. "war sucks" and "It's a fact of life that wars generate jobs.". I made no indication that I though it was a good idea and I did not recommend doing it.So in a time of economic crisis the best recourse is to go pick a fight with someone? That may put economic inidcators up, but why should I ask someone to die just to fill my wallet!
Try to keep what I say in context. I did say no depression is a result of a single event. Well it stands to reason that no recovery is the outcome of only one event. Also when I say re-align jobs I mean exactly that. The jobs saved on the tank assembly line are recreated at the robotics lab. War generates income in many fields such as petroleum production, crop production, toilet paper production. Increases in production occur in hundreds of fields. But as I said above I don't particulary like war and find it only useful in the defense of our peoples. The choice to move into wars in the past was made by the seated government at that time. The outcome was a positive economic affect weather planned or not.A few hundred (or even thousand) will not lift a country of 350 million out of an ecoonomic slump of the current magnitude. Your math is outdated.
You misunderstand what the term FLAT means when used with 1%. There are no loopholes or complicated formulas. You (Read everyone) take the total earnings from your W2's or your corporate books and send 1% of that to the tax collectors.And how is it fair that the rich have access to tax shelters and loopholes that enable them to keep their 1% and you and I do not?
The equal I referred to was in sharing the cost of government. 1% flat across the board is equal. Moving the poor and rich into the middle class is what Lenin and Joe did. Unfortunately they didn't truly understand Karl's book and even in Joe and Nakita's utopia existed a set of classes that weren't listed in Karl's book!It we were all equal, we'd all be middle class.
Now that is how the powers try to use the war thing for.Smith&Wesson make men equal - nothing else.
Now this is straying from the original issues in this thread by quite a margin. So are you saying it is better for us to invade Somalia in the interest of human rights then for us to invade Afghanistan for providing a haven and training facility for terrorist representing one religion that attacks all capitalist societies and kills several thousand civilians. Even I can see the human interest side of self defense through gauged offensive action in Afghanistan. I wonder what our northern neighbors would have done had 9-11 happened in Toronto? Better yet I can imagine what favors of the US would have been asked!So much for human rights and equality.
Yes I am ok with the assault on Sadam's Kingdon. For it's original intended reason I find that Bush did what he had to do. What I was unhappy with was the DOD's lack of a well planned occupational force which led to the availability of the munitions and weapons used by the insurgents to slow down the return of power to a legal government. Did it suck our coffers dry? No it did not. The new or old math actually will show that the US government incurred well over the debts of that war in their attempts to buy out a depression and save a corrupt banking industry.Sure they did, they drained the coffers dry, and sent hundreds of your volunteer enlisted to an early death to remove a dictator that "they" put in place. Protect and serve my ass. You're telling me that they spent trillions of dollars to find Osama and failed? They can see a fingernail on a sandy beach from space, but they can't find a 6'6" arab on a dialisis machine? And you're ok with that?
That money could have been much better spent at home, or doing real humanitarian work creating a better, stronger, US that does actually treat "ALL" its citizens with respect and equality. Think of the condition of your education system if even 1% of that money had been spent there instead of the redundant ocupation that is currently going on.
Very few rational folks believe that man is even still alive.find Osama and failed?
History is full of dictators who had to be removed by the same folks that facilitated their rise to power by just about every major power on the planet.to remove a dictator that "they" put in place
I am not a student of Canadian history and political science. However I can read the Canadian news and listen to the comments of your countrymen on web sites like these and it certainly appears to me that you not only have many of our programs but you also have many of our problems as well. But again that drifts a long way from the thread we have here.We've had the same systems up here for decades, and we are nowhere even close to Facism, Socialism, Communism, or a Dictator. We have alot more equality up here than you do down there.
One reason I can give for being proud to be an American is that after sampling life and liberty in as many as 30 nations including Canada I still find that we are an imperfect nation but the best one on the planet. That sir is all the reason I need to be proud of my country.And so you should. But a good reason would be nice.
And exactly which part of that pledge do you find not true? And how did you arrive at that conclusion?Nice sentiment. If only that was as true in reality as people belive it to be.
Racism is part of human nature. It exists to one degree or another in every country and every person. Yes it still runs rampant all over the world. Has the level of this rampant running been reduced over the years? Yes it has. But I feel no need to attack you or Canada specifically over the topic since I am sure the entire planet's population is continually striving to improve our willingness to share then planet with all races.And yet rasicm still runs rampant...
I'm having a difficult time trying to reason your paragraph's relativity to my statement you quoted? From your paragraph I assume you feel a single powerful head of government is the only answer to sound leadership for a freeAnd yet you're still guided by corrupt politicians, lobbyists, and big industry instead. Government for the people by the people, is virtually dead, its just a sad fact that nobody has realized it yet. A country is like a large corporation. The biggest and wealthiest corporations are not run by a commitee. I'm not advocating for dictatorship here, just stating that we have too many commitee's. The best way to get nothing done, and use alot of money, is to form a commitee to do it. There are multiple commitee's at the head of every free country, not a big wonder why the world is bogged down in red tape and nothing ever seems to change.
country? I cannot agree with that. We Americans have know for the last 50 years that "Of the people, by the people, for the people" is rapidly vanishing. The real wakeup call here is to change the membership of our government./ Our representative republic system can work just fine but we must be sure to rotate it's membership. Our Congress has been allowed to entrench life long corrupt members that must be voted out and a new system of term limitations voted in to insure this rotation of blood continues. That is the solution to revive a representative republic that has lost it's way.
