Metal prep, Primer and paint

[shawn085]

I'm looking to see what the latest and greatest is for restoring the metal on the M-37. I've been told about his stuff call Picklex for preping the bare metal for rust prevention. Any body use it? Thoughts? But what primer and paint would you recomend. I was planning on useing all 2 part paint and doing it in the dark green of three colour Canadian camo. But what brands? What process? I was planning on getting parts sandblasted as required and if there is no rust at all on a part sand it and prime and paint. Some of the paint on this truck has been there for over 50 years and no rust at all. I don't think it would be good to try and take it all down to bare metal. It must be good paint. I would think paint that's so good you can't it it anymore because of enviromental reasons. I live on the Wet Coast and go through the bush. I'm looking for the best tough paint that will prevent rust. Then what's the body filler of choise these days, metal bondo?

[Nickathome]

Since I knew from the get go my truck will not be an award winner, I chose to sand as much ofthe chipping paint as I could, then gave the whole thing a coat of NAPA red oxide primer, followed by a scuff up with scotch brite pad, then two coats of Gillespie 24087 OD semigloss at a ratio of 2 to 1 paint vs reducer. So far its holduing up well. Truck is garaged and doesn't see hard use so I can't comment on the paint's longevity under harsh conditions.

[k8icu]

I'm not going to be much help but have a few comments that might get you into the right direction. If you want to use commercial automotive paints then I would suggest you contact a paint supplier in your area. Most auto paint today is a 2 part epoxy type paint which is paint, hardner, and reducer (ok that's really three, but you need reducer [thinner] in any paint) to get the right mix for spraying. I would think a epoxy type paint would hold up well, but may chip. Again talk to the supplier he or she should know thier products. The supplier should be able to recommend a good primer or primers for your application. One primer for the bare sandblasted metal and one for over the already painted parts, or they might have a good all around primer that will do both. If your not getting answers check with another supplier. Most bigger towns have at least two auto paint houses. The big names are PPG, and Martin Semore paints. I think some NAPA store can provide the MS paint.

Good luck with your project.

[Josh]

one thing to be wary of is M-37's vibrate... Alot. A paint that doesnt have any flexibility will crack as a result.

[m37jarhead]

The m37 that I'm currently restoring is not intended as a show winner but
I do want it to look good and be mechanically sound. I just finished painting the drive train and frame with a paint product called: POR 15 Rust
Preventative Paint. Bought at the local automotive paint supplier. About $40 per quart and does not require use of thinner. Hard to believe but you can do the entire frame and running gear with one qt. It's tough stuff and used in marine applications and other "rusty" areas. Brush on or spray on; I used a brush.
I could not sand blast the frame but did de-grease with marine grade
detergent as recommended on the paint can also using a pressure washer. Choose the color black for this application. I've used it before
with good success. Word of caution.... do not let any POR dry on your skin. You'll live with it until it wears off; trust me on that !!!!!
Maybe someone else on this forum has some comments on POR paint., good or bad I would like to hear them.

[Sal]

I've used POR products on my truck. Where I live sand blasting is out of the question, So I wire brushed the chassis and power washed it then I used the POR Metal ready to neutralize the rust before applying a coat of POR silver and then top coated it with there chassis black while the first coat of silver was still tacky, it came out pretty good. When I did the under side of my front fenders and splash guards I did it a little different. I used the silver POR and then gave it a coat of Gillespie Red Oxide Primer while the POR was still tacky, then top coated that with the O. D. I read this on AJP's web site I have also used it on the chassis of on my wife's car and its been 3 years and sill looked good.....http://www.armyjeepparts.com

[Master Yota]

POR 15 is good stuff. The POR stands for "Paint over Rust" and I've talked to a few people who have used it and it does just that with excellent results. I've also talked to people who have "over prepped" the surface area and had poor results. Apparently POR dosne't like to stick to completely bare steel (sandblasted). I was told it worked better with a little rust on the metal - I guess the chemicals in the paint react with the rust to form a better bond? I'm not positive. I would say follow the directions to the letter and go from there.

[Sal]

Yota. What do you mean by they OVER Prepped ? what did they do ?

[MSeriesRebuild]

Yota. What do you mean by they OVER Prepped ? what did they do ?

What he meant to say here is this stuff is designed for and only works on metal with a good complete coverage of surface rust. By over prep, he is speaking of removing rust by sandblasting or other means. Putting this stuff on metal that is not completely rusty, or bare metal without rust will actually cause the metal to rust. We've tried various products of this type that are out there today, putting it on clean metal will cause very aggressive rusting that moves super fast. It will cause you more serious rusting issues than you ever dreamed and FAST. We even tried a similar product that claimed it could be used on rusty or clean metal with the same result, (was right on the can's label), NOT, the clean metal rusted like you read about in a matter of a few days. The newly formed rust would ooze a wet substance, the surface would never dry even in direct summer sun, just stayed moist and rust just went wildly out of control.

If you don't have completely rusted metal, run from this stuff. If you do have complete rust, it will work as that is what it was intended for. Nothing is as good as getting back to clean metal, coating with an etching primer, doing the correct prep work, and painting several coats. Lots of times these so called miracle fixes only bring about COSTLY to repair heart ache. Trust me, been there, done that, have the hat and t-shirt.

[Master Yota]

Yota. What do you mean by they OVER Prepped ? what did they do ?

What he meant to say here is this stuff is designed for and only works on metal with a good complete coverage of surface rust. By over prep, he is speaking of removing rust by sandblasting or other means. Putting this stuff on metal that is not completely rusty, or bare metal without rust will actually cause the metal to rust. We've tried various products of this type that are out there today, putting it on clean metal will cause very aggressive rusting that moves super fast. It will cause you more serious rusting issues than you ever dreamed and FAST. We even tried a similar product that claimed it could be used on rusty or clean metal with the same result, (was right on the can's label), NOT, the clean metal rusted like you read about in a matter of a few days. The newly formed rust would ooze a wet substance, the surface would never dry even in direct summer sun, just stayed moist and rust just went wildly out of control.

If you don't have completely rusted metal, run from this stuff. If you do have complete rust, it will work as that is what it was intended for. Nothing is as good as getting back to clean metal, coating with an etching primer, doing the correct prep work, and painting several coats. Lots of times these so called miracle fixes only bring about COSTLY to repair heart ache. Trust me, been there, done that, have the hat and t-shirt.

Not quite the words I would have chosen Charles - but thanks for the attempt. By over prepped - I meant sand blasted to bare clean metal. POR15 uses a chemical reaction between the paint base, and the rust to form a better bond with the metal. Scrape of the large flaky bits of rust off, and then use a wire brush on the surface to remove any loose scale. I would image a degreasing after that would be sufficient surface prep for POR15. As I don't have the instructions here before me this description may not be accurate.

POR15 is not however some snakeoil miracle product. Its been around for a very long time with many extremely satisfied customers. Any paint that is applied incorrectly will be the direct cause of rust no matter the brand. As Charles has inidcated in his post - his experiences with similar products were poor. I can't speak to the products that he's used, only the products that I've researched - like POR15 - and the people I've talked with who've used it. The worst result I've heard of is the POR15 not adhereing to the surface of clean metal. I've never heard of any issues with the paint not drying, or of it causing instant bubbling rust within days of application.

I would consider POR15 to be a "savior" paint - in other words if you have a project that is rusting away and you haven't the needed cash or facilites to perform a propper sandblast and restore of the metal; then use POR15 too at least stop the rust until you can do a proper job, as Charles has indicated.

My personal preference is to use PPG products when doing a full and proper paint job. I really like the DP40 primer that PPG has, as its a water-proof primer which goes along way in protecting the metal underneath, especially when the outer layer of paint gets scratched or chipped...

[shawn085]

I was thinking of the DP40 also. Or Super Koropon® primer. We use the super koropon at work a lot. It's good stuff for aluminum. It supost to work for steel. I just haven't use it much for steel. Any sugestions for a good self etching primer? Has anyone used the Picklex for preping the bare metal?

[MSeriesRebuild]

One final suggestion, experience has taught me this is the best guide to follow. Don't mix a bunch of different products from various manufacturers. It is best to choose the specific paint system you want to go with, then go with prep products, primers, paint, etc all from the same source. Trying to mix and match chemicals from various suppliers does not always end well. We have had what we thought to be a good result only to find out 6 months later, NOT. When the final outcome (in our case) was to redo the job. Yes, COST like you read about, right out of our pocket. Trust me, you don't want to travel that route, even if it is on your truck.

I've been stomped and called stupid on this forum for my paint recommendations several times. Dosen't change my belief though, cause I've already learned the hard way that you best know how various chemicals will react before you mix, or apply over the top of something else. Good luck with yours.

[Master Yota]

One final suggestion, experience has taught me this is the best guide to follow. Don't mix a bunch of different products from various manufacturers. It is best to choose the specific paint system you want to go with, then go with prep products, primers, paint, etc all from the same source. Trying to mix and match chemicals from various suppliers does not always end well. We have had what we thought to be a good result only to find out 6 months later, NOT. When the final outcome (in our case) was to redo the job. Yes, COST like you read about, right out of our pocket. Trust me, you don't want to travel that route, even if it is on your truck.

Charles you're absolutely correct on this point - 100%. Using all the same products from one manufactures eliminates so many problems. The only problem that remains is the applicator - AKA the guy who does the work. That really limits the variables when it comes down to a good job or a shoddy job.

[k8icu]

Yep like Gillispie doesn't like Rustolem....did a camo job with the Gillispie from Rapco and skipped the flat black because you can get that anyplace and got a can of spray can or Rustolem flat black and spraid it on (4 color camo job) and it lifted the other paint right up...nice crinkle finish...grrrrr.

Had to sand it all out and start over.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Yep like Gillispie doesn't like Rustolem....did a camo job with the Gillispie from Rapco and skipped the flat black because you can get that anyplace and got a can of spray can or Rustolem flat black and spraid it on (4 color camo job) and it lifted the other paint right up...nice crinkle finish...grrrrr.

Had to sand it all out and start over.

Wrinkling is a common occurance when mixing products, seen that before too.