My history must be incorrect...

[Nickathome]

I agree that the "no child left behind" doctrine is a big mistake......Basically what this says is, you don't have to worry about passing or even paying attention because you're not going to be left behind anyway......Its not fair to those students who do care and take the time to study and learn. All it does is free the schools to get rid of the problem kids by moving them along. But, that seems to be the way this country is today anyway. The guy who tows the line gets boned and the freeloading bums get whatever they want. Just take a look at the healthcare plans of our good old president and you'll see a perfect example of the noone left behind doctrine at work.

Now, as to corporal punishment, I do not agree that teachers should be given that authority to spank once again. Giving teachers the authority to inflict punishment in the form of physical pain is wrong. It was wrong back when I went to school and it would be wrong now. I remember many an over zealous teacher who would dole out corporal punishment for the slightest infraction. And I am talking kids getting paddled for something as simple as talking out of turn in class, or not raising their hand to answer a question. I ever hear of one of my kid's teachers using corporal punishment on them, and that teacher will get a dose of their own medicine, if it means I have to go to jail.......

Btw- If my history serves the prototype B-52 flew in 1950......

[DAP]

OH "Butt" - when my kids were growing (1990-2004) up in grade school the rule was the kid had to go to the principals office and the teacher explained the offense, then the principal paddled while the teacher witnessed it. Kept things under control very well. However when some parents objected then they "switched" to sending a permission slip for every kid that gave permission by the parents to be paddled like this. This was done at the beginnig of each year and if you didn't give paddle permission that was fine. If your kid was sent to the principals office then you were called and had to leave work and come get your kid right away. Amazing what happens when you cost parents $$ out of their pocket book. Alas after our kids left for high school some misguided parent fussed so loud on behalf of other kids that the system caved - sad

M37 content - as my kids were growing up I taught them how to drive my M37 on the grass around my property (but not double clutching) and what it meant to drive, shift, watch out for trees, etc, etc. It took the glamour out of getting that I want to drive itch. When they took drivers ed they were one of the best drivers and the first time my oldest drove a stick toyota mini pickup he came home saying he couldn't beleive how easy it was to drive a stick! Bwahahahahaha His wife doesn't know how to drive a stick (did not go to private school) so one of their trips down from NJ I got to teach her how to drive the M. It should be a riot! I love my kids AND my wife!!!!!

[Master Yota]

The guy who tows the line gets boned and the freeloading bums get whatever they want. Just take a look at the healthcare plans of our good old president and you'll see a perfect example of the noone left behind doctrine at work.

I disagree - comming from a country that has a unilateral healthcare system that is open and available to all, free of direct charge, is something that I won't ever give up. Could the system be better? Sure, but its alot better than the pay-up or go without system that the US has now.

Now, as to corporal punishment, I do not agree that teachers should be given that authority to spank once again. Giving teachers the authority to inflict punishment in the form of physical pain is wrong. It was wrong back when I went to school and it would be wrong now. I remember many an over zealous teacher who would dole out corporal punishment for the slightest infraction. And I am talking kids getting paddled for something as simple as talking out of turn in class, or not raising their hand to answer a question. I ever hear of one of my kid's teachers using corporal punishment on them, and that teacher will get a dose of their own medicine, if it means I have to go to jail.......

Can you think of a better form of discipline that gets the point across to children that some behaviour is not tolerated? There is a reason that there are no vital organs located in the bum. Spanking works. I was spanked as a child when I needed it (not by teachers, but parents and other authority figures). By the time I got to school, I had a healthy respect for my parents and adults in generall, that the thought of a Teacher informing them that I was out of line was enough to make my ass tingle from memory and give me pause to consider my behaviour. Now I'm all for a verbal reprimand, but another needs to exist to drive the point home when words don't work.

However, the discipline of elementary school age kids is really a rather moot point, as they are young enough to still be encouraged to "be" kids. A little structure and constructive encouragment is usually all thats needed. Rebelious and defiant teenagers in highschool is another issue all together. I don't really think that spanking would work in this instance (although some would surely try!)

Now this is just my opinion, and I'm perfectly comfortable if others don't agree with it. Every parent should be allowed to "parent" as they see fit. I too would have issues with some persons taking advantage of a discipline system. Its my belief however that only a few spankings would be needed to change the attitude of the entire class, thus promoting a better environment for learning; which is the whole point of going to school...

[Lifer]

Well said. Too many people think that "talking to" a kid is sufficient. The problem with that is that kids, up to junior high/middle school age, are not capable of understanding an opposing point of view. If your desire conflicts with theirs, there's going to be a clash of wills, and none of your "talking" will penetrate their minds. The "power of the pout" is an awesome thing! Once the kids reach adolescence, spanking isn't as effective. With unruly teenagers, maybe we could stand over them and make them do the grunt work of restoring our M37s.

[Nickathome]

I knew someone would read my post regarding spanking and "assume" I am one who doesn't agree with spanking....Let me clear the air. I AM a parent who believes that "sparing the rod" spoils the child. I have spanked my children as a form of discipline and continue to believe that spanking is the best method of discipline. However, I will reiterate that I DO NOT agree that teachers should have that priviledge.....I DO NOT and WILL NOT allow someone else to force corporal punishment upon MY child. That's just the way it is with me. And I agree that merely talking to a child, or giving them time out is not the way to discipline, but that's up to the individual to decide, as I don't care what someone else does with their own kids. But again, I do not agree with teachers spanking or paddling children and will never agree with it.

Now as to Canada's healthcare system, hey pal if you want governmental control over your healthcare, then go for it. I see how well your governmental control over guns is helping to control crime up there!

[Master Yota]

Now as to Canada's healthcare system, hey pal if you want governmental control over your healthcare, then go for it.

Please explain to me how you think that my government is controlling, or limiting what medical services I get? I can go see a doctor, at any time, for any reason and get prompt medical treatment for any ailment. We have hospitals, with all the services needed to sustain and repair human life, free of charge. I pay for my prescriptions, just like everyone else, but after a set dollar amount is spent, they are covered too. I pay a flat monthly fee of $108.00 that covers my entire family, giving them access to whatever they need medicaly. Seems like a pretty good system to me. I don't have some paper pusher telling me that I don't qualify for the care and attention that I need. Plus I don't need to sell my house to cover medical bills should I get refused by an insurance company.
There are always ways to improve the system, but for now, I won't give it up.

I see how well your governmental control over guns is helping to control crime up there!

Yup - about as well as your lack of governmental influence helps control crime down there. There is more crime in LA or New York, or Philly, in one year, than all of Canada. That really speaks for crime control.

As for gun control, thats really more of a joke than anything. Criminals don't obey laws anyway so why should gun control really be practical? All it does in keep honest people honest. The legislation did get out of hand, but it was designed to keep hand guns and assault riffles off our streets. And it did a fair job of that. But low and behold anyone that mistakenly thinks we are unarmed and easy pickin's...

As for punishment in schools, If parents focus on raising well behaved kids, then they should have no fear of it, as their child will be mindful and respectful and won't need any discipline.

[Lifer]

Man! Did I open a can of worms, or what? I'm sorry that one comment about spanking got so far out of hand, but "what is said cannot be unsaid."

Anyway, Nick has a valid point. I'm sure his kids are as well behaved at school as they are at home and if he hears otherwise from the school, he will "apply the board of education" to the "seat" of the problem. If only all parents would be as mindful of their children. Too many kids have no disciipline at home, thus have none elsewhere either.

As a former teacher, I could go on about this topic until the cows come home. I could show how it works and how it doesn't, but I can't change people's minds. I think it's best that this topic ends here. Again, I'm sorry to have sparked the storm. "It won't happen again, Sir!"

[Master Yota]

Lifer, I belive you have a valid point, and an excellent suggestion.

[Nickathome]

Now as to Canada's healthcare system, hey pal if you want governmental control over your healthcare, then go for it.

Please explain to me how you think that my government is controlling, or limiting what medical services I get? I can go see a doctor, at any time, for any reason and get prompt medical treatment for any ailment. We have hospitals, with all the services needed to sustain and repair human life, free of charge. I pay for my prescriptions, just like everyone else, but after a set dollar amount is spent, they are covered too. I pay a flat monthly fee of $108.00 that covers my entire family, giving them access to whatever they need medicaly. Seems like a pretty good system to me. I don't have some paper pusher telling me that I don't qualify for the care and attention that I need. Plus I don't need to sell my house to cover medical bills should I get refused by an insurance company.
There are always ways to improve the system, but for now, I won't give it up.

I see how well your governmental control over guns is helping to control crime up there!

Yup - about as well as your lack of governmental influence helps control crime down there. There is more crime in LA or New York, or Philly, in one year, than all of Canada. That really speaks for crime control.

As for gun control, thats really more of a joke than anything. Criminals don't obey laws anyway so why should gun control really be practical? All it does in keep honest people honest. The legislation did get out of hand, but it was designed to keep hand guns and assault riffles off our streets. And it did a fair job of that. But low and behold anyone that mistakenly thinks we are unarmed and easy pickin's...

As for punishment in schools, If parents focus on raising well behaved kids, then they should have no fear of it, as their child will be mindful and respectful and won't need any discipline.

Governmental controlled healthcare is but one penstroke away from utter disaster. Your fancy healthcare system can go down the toilet with one simple policy change. I prefer to have a say in what healthcare I get, and the only way to have a choice is to have a private run system, not one run by politicians......

Please... you compare the crime rate of a couple of our cities to your entire country, when in fact those couple cities alone have close to , if not more of a populace than your entire country..... Come on, overall the crime rates are probably the same!!. .......At least I as a lawabiding citizen can still own an assault rifle. Can you ?

[Master Yota]

Now as to Canada's healthcare system, hey pal if you want governmental control over your healthcare, then go for it.

Please explain to me how you think that my government is controlling, or limiting what medical services I get? I can go see a doctor, at any time, for any reason and get prompt medical treatment for any ailment. We have hospitals, with all the services needed to sustain and repair human life, free of charge. I pay for my prescriptions, just like everyone else, but after a set dollar amount is spent, they are covered too. I pay a flat monthly fee of $108.00 that covers my entire family, giving them access to whatever they need medicaly. Seems like a pretty good system to me. I don't have some paper pusher telling me that I don't qualify for the care and attention that I need. Plus I don't need to sell my house to cover medical bills should I get refused by an insurance company.
There are always ways to improve the system, but for now, I won't give it up.

I see how well your governmental control over guns is helping to control crime up there!

Yup - about as well as your lack of governmental influence helps control crime down there. There is more crime in LA or New York, or Philly, in one year, than all of Canada. That really speaks for crime control.

As for gun control, thats really more of a joke than anything. Criminals don't obey laws anyway so why should gun control really be practical? All it does in keep honest people honest. The legislation did get out of hand, but it was designed to keep hand guns and assault riffles off our streets. And it did a fair job of that. But low and behold anyone that mistakenly thinks we are unarmed and easy pickin's...

As for punishment in schools, If parents focus on raising well behaved kids, then they should have no fear of it, as their child will be mindful and respectful and won't need any discipline.

Governmental controlled healthcare is but one penstroke away from utter disaster. Your fancy healthcare system can go down the toilet with one simple policy change. I prefer to have a say in what healthcare I get, and the only way to have a choice is to have a private run system, not one run by politicians......

Please... you compare the crime rate of a couple of our cities to your entire country, when in fact those couple cities alone have close to , if not more of a populace than your entire country..... Come on, overall the crime rates are probably the same!!. .......At least I as a lawabiding citizen can still own an assault rifle. Can you ?

Whats the purpose of owning an assualt rifle? You can't hunt with one, it makes a good steak into hamburger, and its only accurate to what? 150'? Big deal. I don't need an assualt rifle to be a law abiding citizen, nor do I need one to defend my country. I pull headshots at 600' - long before an assualt rifle or handgun becomes an effective weapon. But you do as you see fit, keep those assualt rifles and handguns out where anybody can get ahold of one. And remember Columbine while your at it.

As for the crime rate being the same - thats political spindoctoring on a sliding scale if I've ever seen it. But I'll leave you to tell yourself whatever you need to sleep at night.

As for my health care going down the tubes with a single penstroke? I don't think so. One policy change could have a singular effect on the whole country - so the likely hood of that happening is about as close to zero as anything. As for your private system, your insurance providers have a tendancy to makeup policy as they go and change what they want, when they want. I'll tell you who has the more stable system. We do. The system has been around for more than 80 years now, and it works. I don't expect you to believe that our system works, but I will suggest that you believe in the power of a dollar. You go ahead and spend yours, I'll keep mine and be healthy...

[Lifer]

[quote=]"NickathomeGovernmental controlled healthcare is but one penstroke away from utter disaster. Your fancy healthcare system can go down the toilet with one simple policy change. I prefer to have a say in what healthcare I get, and the only way to have a choice is to have a private run system, not one run by politicians...... [/quote]

Is ours really any better, Nick? Mandatory insurance and HMO systems are governmental controls on our system. So are Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA health care system (which I rely upon quite heavily). Every unemployed American, 99.44% of the under-employed, and 100% of the illegal immigrants may be denied treatment because they have no health insurance.

I have served my country in Germany, England, Korea, Japan, and (yes) Canada in addition to the few years I served stateside. All of these countries have socialized medicine which is available to anyone...not just citizens of each individual country. I have had occasion to use the local (socialized) medical facilities in Germany and England on several occasions. No questions asked except "where does it hurt," and no fees charged. Didn't even have to show my military ID or passport. You're there, you're treated, and you're not charged.

Our emergency rooms are required to treat those who are financially unable to pay, and certain elements of our society abuse the privilege on a daily basis. Tourists, however, are usually asked for insurance information. Let's face it...if a European or Asian tourist can afford to come here for a vacation, he is surely not destitute (or so some hospital administrators are apt to believe).

There is MUCH wrong with our health care system, most of it attributable to unscrupulous insurance companies and our "sue 'em for everything they got" attitude when things don't go as desired.

Our economy doesn't help, either. If you have a any kind of job with a good salary and benefits, eat a ton of dirt to keep it if you have to! The day you lose that job, you will have no insurance coverage, your next job (when you eventually find one) will likely be a minimum-wage "service" job with no benefits (insurance). Then, whenever you or one of your family is ill or injured and requires medical assistance, you will wish you had that socialized medicine.

I'm not picking on ya, Nick. I hope you're not offended. I just wanted to "stick up for the underdog" a bit and show the other side of the coin.

[DJ]

I think it's best that this topic ends here.

I'm with Lifer

DJ

[Nickathome]

Lifer;

No, I am not offended at what you wrote. I agree with all you say, and realize our healthcare system has its faults. I just don't like it when foreigners talk trash about how great their countries are, or how great their systems are, and how much ours sucks, etc. I have issues when someone trashes the U.S.A in any form however how benign in their presentation.......Hey maybe Canada has a great system ,that's wonderful. However it won't sway my opinion that we live in the greatest country on the planet. No place is perfect, and anyone who thinks it's better someplace else can move out, I'll even help them pack!

[Master Yota]

Lifer;

No, I am not offended at what you wrote. I agree with all you say, and realize our healthcare system has its faults. I just don't like it when foreigners talk trash about how great their countries are, or how great their systems are, and how much ours sucks, etc. I have issues when someone trashes the U.S.A in any form however how benign in their presentation.......Hey maybe Canada has a great system ,that's wonderful. However it won't sway my opinion that we live in the greatest country on the planet. No place is perfect, and anyone who thinks it's better someplace else can move out, I'll even help them pack!

Nick, while my comments may have been critical of your healthcare system, they were in no way "trashing" to your country. I can appreciate and respect your civic pride, but it makes you ignorant when it closes your mind off to the possiblitiy of a better system or new idea's.

I too have issues with people bashing my country - benign comments or outright. This isn't a singular thought however, as anyone living in the Western world would have the same issue no matter what country they live in. While we Canadians might be a little more reserved than you fine folks to the south, we do have our national pride and patriotism, and if that is offensive to you, then so be it. Thats your problem to deal with.

We both live in the two greatest country's on earth, and I firmly belive that neither one is better than the other from my perspective. I'm sure that if you were to ask any immigrant, or refugee which place they would rather live, you would find the decision split about 50/50 between us. Our two societys are so intertwined that they are virtually impossible to separate, and the proof is in the worlds longest undefended border between us. Geography might make me a foreigner, but culturally I might as well live next door.

And FYI - I went down my local gun shop yesterday, and surprisingly enough, I can legally own an assault riffle, and handguns too! I've a few more hoops to jump through to get them, but the fact remains I can legally own one, or both or multiples of each - just like you. Now if the real world developed a Hollywood theme and suddenly filled with zombies, I might have a use for one or the other, but for the moment, I'll leave them on the shelf.

[Cal_Gary]

Certainly the liveliest post I've seen in a while with a lot of valid points!
Gary