T245 Engine internal upgrades

Steel Rain · Post by **Steel Rain** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:31 am

Okay, so the wheels are always first on my projects! Gotta look good, even if the thing doesn't run! My question is, has anyone modified the internals of the 230 inline 6? More specifically had anyone upgraded the conrods or pistons for more substantial parts and tuned for a little more power? I like the original engine mounting option versus reengineering a different engine and tranny swap. I was thinking of overboring and shortening the stroke to add a turbo charger for added power. I've worked with turbo race engines for years but all rotary power so this is new territory for me. Any ideas would be great! I've read most of the threads in here and on Steel Soldiers on B4T and other swaps but I think it would be much simpler modifying the existing engine. I know the conrods are weak and imagine the 3 1/4" pistons are a fairly common size. But at 4 5/8", the stroke is too long for a boosted application. So any thoughts from you guys with experience with the original engine would be great, thanks!
Art

Lifer · Post by **Lifer** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:29 am

One major drawback to hot-rodding the T245 would be the oiling system. I'm afraid it wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand you'd be putting on it. Sure, you can get a few more rpm out of it, but not enough to make a noticeable difference without risking a blown engine. Been there, done that with a bunch of old Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto engines back in the '60s. Kept trying to keep up with Fords on the race track until I found it couldn't be done.

M-Thrax · Post by **M-Thrax** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:07 am

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Steel Rain · Post by **Steel Rain** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:39 am

Does the 251 offer much more in terms of HP and TQ? Also, does it bolt straight up to the stock tranny? I'm not looking to make 400 hp or anything, just somewhere in the 200 range, I realize the 230 only makes about 80hp so that's considerably more than the stock rating. Can the oil pump be upgraded to deliver more oil or a higher volume of oil? I have an 89 Esprit and my engine builder shaved the housing to reduce clearance on the gerator to give us about 15more psi under load, can something similar be done with the 230?

rixm37 · Post by **rixm37** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:59 am

I don't know about turbos on these old sixes but here is a link to a cool 50 plymouth restoration and they did a nice job on the engine which is same as our trucks. I would do this if I rebuild mine at some point . I like the original engine and the way it fits.

http://www.50plymouth.com/

Hope this helps

Steel Rain · Post by **Steel Rain** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:27 am

Thanks for the link! I'll check it out! This is what I'm looking for, I figure someone has hot rodded these engines at some point. Inline 6's sound beautiful with turbos!

Wayne64 · Post by **Wayne64** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:34 am

Shorter stroke will increase RPM potential but will kill grunt. Also shortening the rods changes the rod ratio and adds to more wear and stress in the rotating assembly. I'm sure better rods and pistons could be had along with getting the oil pump blue printed. JMHO
BTW Merry Christmas

Steel Rain · Post by **Steel Rain** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:41 am

Wayne,
Thanks for the input, after further contemplation, the longer stroke will provide a smoother transition from the crank to rod angle and would actually suit the turbo or supercharger better than a shorter stroke! I would have to consider stronger rods and ARP bolts along with possibly better slugs than the factory ones

rixm37 · Post by **rixm37** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:17 am

Here is a picture of the 50 Plymouth engine. The details are on the web site but its a beautiful engine and there are sound clips there also. A sweet note it is.

MSeriesRebuild · Post by **MSeriesRebuild** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:52 am

All depends on what you want and the desired end use of the truck once you have it. Make that decision solidly and wisely before spending money is some great advice, matters not from where it comes. We install lots of Cummins, very popular among clients who want more on both top and bottom end, with very low maintenance, and great fuel economy. Take a hard look at how you want the truck to perform when all is said and done. An original modified, customized 230 will not be impressive to you if the outcome isn't what you hoped for in the end. You will have a major investment into the 230 to accomplish what you are speaking of as I'm sure you realize. Not trying to influence you one way or another, that is totally your call. Just realize what you can expect compared to what you really want before taking the plunge. I recall several instances where the end product came out to be less than hoped for after major $$$$ were spent. Another major investment usually follows after too little, too late in order to get what the real desire was at the onset. Good luck with the project.

Steel Rain · Post by **Steel Rain** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:17 am

Charles, wise words, and I hoped you'd chime in. I've been reading many of your responses to other quandries and ascertained from your experience that you'd have vast expertise in this discussion as well. My concern with the Cummins, is ease of fitment. I don't have intention of hauling or major industrial usage with the truck, just a fun toy to drive around and show off at different venues. I would like a well performing and well running truck in the end though. I would like something I can drive on the highway at faster than 55mph too, so this is a major consideration. I have considered a 5.9L Cummins turbo diesel but I'm afraid of the dimension requirements, it would be nice to convert it to a newer electronically controlled engine as the capabilities are endless and power acceptable. I don't wish to spend $5K on a motor rebuild and upgrade with the 230 to net 15 more hp! If that! I have seen a few threads on the 4BT cummins variant but not sure how I feel about that conversion. I'm researching to see what the options are and is exactly why I finally registered to learn more about what's been done and what's "feasable". A V8 would be an option, but again, I'm not interested in building a completely one off chassis and frame to accomodate an engine that I fancy, I want to be practical with my choice but also get the most bang for my $$$! I was a 13MS8 on active duty so I'm very familiar with military systems and heavy wheeled vehicles, so I'm not afraid to take on the project, just have learned from years of wasted money on automotive projects, that doing my research up front pays off in the end and usually nets me a much better and desired result as opposed to dead ends and frustration!

Wayne64 · Post by **Wayne64** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:56 pm

Steel rain, Charles always puts things into perspective better than I. Here is another thought of mine. What was the weight of that 50 Plymouth? I'm guessing tops around 3700#s. I did read his info on both the engine and transmission and for his resto build the "hopped" up 230 and OD tranny was a good mix. The 50 Plymouth started out being able to do hi-way speeds so with some better breathing and the OD he did achieve a nicer cruiser. BTW in my opinion he over carbed it with the twin weber/holleys.
So now we have a M37, a 6,000# beastie that was geared to go anywhere with a load and was never intended to run the parkways quietly and keep up with the BMWs. Your build should include thinking the entire drive train out. Understand I am not being critical here as I recently spent a bunch of both money and time on a build which I thought would be fantastic. Bottom line is I made enough HP but lacked in the torque department for a heavy 79 Ranchero. Now if it was in a Mustang it would have been a rocket ship.
My vote is an 4BT with an OD tranny, if there is such a thing.

Steel Rain · Post by **Steel Rain** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:11 pm

Wayne,
No offense taken! That's why I'm doing this research, so I don't spend a bunch of money on wasted effort and frustration! I am considering a 251 or the 265 engines also! I will probably get the stock engine up and running and look at my options when more money is available. I found out that there is a specialty splitfire flathead engine builder in Wichita KS which is about 2 1/2 hours south of me, I may contact them on remans' and specifications so I can be assured of proper fitment. The 251 engine offers considerably more power and substantially more torque. Over 200ft/lbs! I would like to keep the project as simple and cost effective as possible! Keep the input coming, you guys are the experts on these and have the experience working with them, I don't yet! Thanks!
Art

bubba_got_you · Post by **bubba_got_you** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:16 pm

I used a 318 and a dump truck tranny in my truck. I can do 65 with stock gearing and off road it out runs everything IV ridden with (jeeps land rovers and deuces). I love it and there are loads of things you can do with it. just my thoughts but if i had the cash i would go with a 4bt

Steel Rain · Post by **Steel Rain** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:20 pm

Bubba, I've seen a couple different ideas on the V8 front, I am not very keen on chopping and reengineering the whole truck really. I am not planning on doing much off roading or going to truck pulls, although that would be fun! I'd be happy with a truck that is fun and can hold it's own just puttering around and doesn't try to self destruct when I get on the highway. If I did a V8, I'd look for a powerstroke and wedge that bitch in there! I do love a noisy Diesel and the smell on a cold winter morning!!! MMMMMM!