another paint question

[Tony]

I have a 1952 m-37 that i would like to paint army green,but i have a few questions on the correct paint? #1 what is the differenance between the aervoe,gillespie and the napa [martin-senour] paint? #2 what is the correct paint for a 52,[aervoe 24087],ajp wwll semi-gloss late 1944 thur 1957 or rapco 23070 wwll semi gloss od end of wwll thur 55-57.#3 if i go with a napa paint what would the paint code # be? Thaks for your help Tony

[gwalker]

In the early days of the MV hobby it was thought there were only a few colors: WWII flat OD 34087,Navy grey 36176, post war semi gloss od 24087, post war marine corps semi gloss green 34052, and air force strata blue 15045. Now as people do more intense research it seems to be that more shades of green actually exsisted in the war an post war yrs. 24087 was thought to be the only post war army color, prob because by the time thrucks from that period were sold off they had managed to get a coat of that color on them. Now it has been determined there was an early color of semi gloss 23070( that is the shade for the period of your truck). Anyway I think A.J.P. and Rapco sell the same gillispe paint anyway, as for arevoe I dont think they offer that shade, (personally i never liked their product). Im not sure if the paint store will have a color chart for the 23070 but you could try. I do know that the gillispe paint isnt actually an automotive type paint but its still very good an is I think the more popular brand in the hobby, Im not sure if arevoe is a automotive type paint or not.

[MSeriesRebuild]

Both Gillespie & Aervoe-Pacific are industrial enamels, Gillespie is without a doubt the better product. Products at NAPA, BASF dealers & such are automotive & far better quality paints as reflected by the much higher cost. You can also expect a much better looking, more durable finished product when using higher quality finishing systems. Just depends on the end product you want. These dealers do have US government spec colors available. As was mentioned, a number of different color shades could apply.

[Tony]

so far so good,is there any onther info that anyone can offer?thanks for your help,Tony

[Nickathome]

What other info are you looking for at this time? The subject of paint can be a vast one. Can you narrow down what it is you need covered?

[Tony]

I guess i will go with #23070 does anyone know what the napa # would be,they can't cross # 23070.thanks again for all your help,Tony

[MSeriesRebuild]

As with general parts, never go to NAPA looking for any replacements using a military #, it will get blank expressions from the counter person every time.

Ask the paint guy to look in their literature under US government spec colors. Again the number will be of no use to him.

[gwalker]

Im not sure you will get a useable formula at the paint supplier, the paint standard is fs595 or something like that. Its the listing of military paint color specs, however this spec has been revised over the yrs a few times, which is why there are different shades of od. If the paint shop had that 595 standard it would almost certianly be the current standard an so the shades wouldnt be correct. Go to the steelsoliders site there is a big topic on all this there in the restoration forum. Otherwise if you supplied a part w/ the color on it and they have one of those computer color matching machines they might get it close that way, however then they have to guess at the amout of flattner to add for semi gloss.

[knattrass]

I ordered a case of 12 spray cans of Semi-Gloss #24087 from ArmySurplus to hand paint some of my interior pieces while I wait out the winter. When PPG downloaded the mil spec, we found that the spray out card of the Gillespie differed from the spec by about 17 points of black. Since I had already sprayed my new gauges, switches, etc., we adjusted the Acryllic Enamel. This is PPG Automotive finish, not a cheapie. I can post the mix if interested.

[m37jarhead]

Sorry that I got into this paint question so late. I tried Aervoe paint on my first m37 some years ago. It was a complete disaster. I had to paint the truck piece-meal and found Aervoe paint was slightly different shades every time I shot another section of the truck a day,week or month later. And the paint never wanted to dry properly, I could scratch it with
my fingernail even months later. I finally called Aervoe for some help but they could not help cure the above listed problems. So I removed all of the Aervoe paint (say big, big job here) and re-shot everything with Gillespie. I would not paint my dog house with Aervoe. Gillespie is a good paint but if you want superior paint you'll have to buy it at a local auto paint supplier that will sell you DuPont, Sherwin Williams type brands paint. But exptect $100.00 per gallon or more and you may have to have them custom mix the color.

[ELBUFO]

During my 20 years in the AF, I ran the body shop at Nellis AFB for about seven years. We used Ditzler (PPG) products almost exclusively. We always achieved excellent results. Any real paint shop that handles PPG products will be able to match your selected color, in anything from flat to full gloss. I highly recommend their products. For the most durable finish in an enamel, make sure to use a catalized enamel. They also have "fish eye" eliminator which will cut down on "fish eye" and"orange peal" as well. Remember that any paint job is only as good as the prep work. If you are going to work piecemeal, and leave any portions in primer for an extended period of time, use a primer-sealer over the primer coat, instead of straight primer as it will not allow moisture to get under the primer coat. A buddy of mine did not head this and used straight primer on a Willys thad had been sand blasted. He left it in his garage for a year, and now has to start from scratch due to all the lovely rust that developed The only down side is YOU MUST SAND IT WELL, prior to applying your top coat. I would suggest a good sanding, followed by a second regular primer coat, re-sand, use a product called acryliclean on the bare metal as well as between each coat (primer and sealer) to remove finger print grease etc., then apply your top coats...Ah yes there is nothing like a lacquer thinner buzz first thing in the morning. I remember it well...John

[knattrass]

I work with a small automotive company and the experts work with Dupont/PPG. Given the enamels, most painters say its old technology and want to shoot today' urethanes. Even with all the local experts, PPG here in the "D" had a little trouble with the formulation. The recipe is 8-6-1 as John suggests - paint:reducer:hardener. We went with no flatner so the finish is semi gloss, not an egg-shell flat. They say the flatner weakens the paint's overall durability. I also found that the mil spec mix was more black than desired so I bought the spray cans as above and had them paint match the #24087. The final product was 17 points of black removed from the formula. We just sprayed the box on Saturday and the enamel will tend to want to run -so be careful. We went from sandblasted metal to 2-coats of 2-part epoxy primer, body work, 3 coats of sandable primer, sand, seam sealant, 2-part epoxy primer to cover some sand thru areas, to 3 coats of finish enamel. One done, 200 more parts to go....

[ELBUFO]

I have to agree with the statement that catalyzed enamel is old school. We were shooting poly urethane back in the mid 70's. The problems we had with poly, was when we had to make a repair. Again this is old school, but the urethanes would not feather well. When we had to spot paint for damage repair, it was always noticeable, (Give a GI an anvil and a balloon, put him in a rubber room, and in five minutes the balloon is gone, and the anvil is in pieces.) so we had to paint an entire panel. This was a pain in the rear when you were running a production shop There was a real battle when I switched my shop back to catalused enamel due to he added cost. The Af was buying poly for the aircraft by the barrel so we got it cheap..go figure. In nevada the durrability issue mas nill due to the amount of "sand blasting" our vehicles endured in the desert. The savings in man hours negated any difference in overall cost, Not to mention the added health issues associated with poly. (Nasty stuff.) Out here in the pacific north wet we have these things called trees,(oh yea and bushes) that can scrape up a paint job very quickly. I still swear by the "matchability" of catalyzed enamel. Yea I'm and old dog but I gotta new trick...Drink beer, fall asleap...John