Dodge V6 engine swap

antpreson · Post by **antpreson** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:54 am

Has anyone attempted or would suggest attempting a Dodge V6 engine swap for an M37?

I don't know alot about engines but it looks like a V6 would provide more horsepower than the 230 but not as much as a 318. The trade off would be fuel economy.

Could it be done using the stock tranny in the M37 and 4.89 running gears?

Give me all the input you can out there.

bubba_got_you · Post by **bubba_got_you** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:47 pm

i get 12 mpg with the 318. the real think killing the millage is the gearing.

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:56 am

A V-6 lugging around a 4-ton M37 likely won't be worth the trouble of the swap, even with the gear change. The stock tranny won't mate up either-the 4-BT diesel swap is popular; and several of our members have V-8's installed.

Just my thoughts,
Gary

antpreson · Post by **antpreson** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:16 am

What got me thinking about the V6 was the horsepower rating being close to a 4bt (I think), the fact that 318's can be bolted up with an adapter plate to the original tranny and the V6's were a derivative of the V8's, and things I've heard about V8's being hard on axles.

greencom · Post by **greencom** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:04 pm

antpreson wrote:What got me thinking about the V6 was the horsepower rating being close to a 4bt (I think), the fact that 318's can be bolted up with an adapter plate to the original tranny and the V6's were a derivative of the V8's, and things I've heard about V8's being hard on axles.

I like the idea also, although I was planning to do a GM 4.3 vortec V6. If it's true about the Dodge V6 bolting up to the original tranny with an adapter plate I'd have to go with the Dodge. I don't care what make an engine is I just want as painless a swap as possible. Even though it won't be a firebreather it will have more power and torque than the 230 and will rev a lot higher giving you higher top end speed, plus parts are cheaper and a whole lot more plentiful for the V6. I know a lot of power minded guys will not agree with me but I don't think M37's need triple the original horsepower than they were designed for. The V6 will add about 50% more as it is. Just my humble opinion, not worth anymore than anybody else's..

Greencom

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:34 am

All of your points are valid, in all these posts. It just depends on what you prefer and of course it's your project to do as you wish. Some, like me, prefer the originality of the old 230 in place, while some would also take exception to the fact that I put a civilian wiring harness into my M37. Again, we make informed choices before we make our modifications, and I for one like to see how our forum members' modifications are made-sometimes it motivates me to explore other options with my M. Most importantly, safety first! Any modification has to be safe, above all else-no need to put yourself or others at risk.
Gary

greencom · Post by **greencom** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:12 am

Cal_Gary wrote:All of your points are valid, in all these posts. It just depends on what you prefer and of course it's your project to do as you wish. Some, like me, prefer the originality of the old 230 in place, while some would also take exception to the fact that I put a civilian wiring harness into my M37. Again, we make informed choices before we make our modifications, and I for one like to see how our forum members' modifications are made-sometimes it motivates me to explore other options with my M. Most importantly, safety first! Any modification has to be safe, above all else-no need to put yourself or others at risk.
Gary

Thanks for those thoughts. I too prefer the original 230 engine in the M37, what got me thinking about a V6 is the original 230 in my beater lost it's compression (60psi) and I started looking for an economical alternative, like a modern V6. My relatively restored truck has the original 230 which I will rebuild when the time comes . I don't mind using a non-original engine in my beater but I still don't want to butcher up anything in it I figured a V6 would be the least invasive. I appreciate your open mindedness about different ideas.

Greencom

Juan · Post by **Juan** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:46 pm

The figure you should be using to compare engines for an M-37 is not the HP but the torque figures.

I doubt that the chrysler/GM v6 match the torque of the ol' 230cid with it's long stroke.

Cummins 4bt may have the same hp of the chrysler 3.8 v6 but the 4bt torque is probably more than twice the gasser v6 figures.
Think about that too.

just my 0.2

Lifer · Post by **Lifer** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:16 am

Lots of rational thinking by everyoone on this issue. Nice to see that!

Juan makes an especially valid point. It's always good to consider the desired result when doing a repower.

In my own case, repowers were always a matter of necessity tempered by convenience/cost. (Car A with bad engine + Car B with good engine but totally wasted body = Car C. That's how I ended up with a '56 Plymouth powered by a '53 Cadillac, a '57 Studebaker Silver Hawk powered by a '58 Oldsmobile, and a '41 Chevy pickup powered by a '54 Buick. Ya use what ya got and make it fit, somehow.

)

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:55 am

Antpreson,
Ironically I own a 95 S-10 with the Vortec V-6 (engine code Z) you are considering. It's my daily driver/parts hauler. I only know that when I load the S-10 bed with all my extra M37 clutter (tires, rims, chains, fenders, hood, hard top, etc.) the load is very noticeable and more pedal is required to get around. Even with all of that extra weight it still doesn't come close to the 8,000 pounds of an empty M37. I know, different gear ratios must be considered for your proposed swap, but with all the effort of swapping it out, you'll want to be absolutely sure you get enough oomph out of whatever power plant you choose or you'll end up doing a 2nd swap. I wouldn't want to do a 2nd one due to lack of power but your swap should work fine if you get all your gear ratios in sunch. Good luck-let us know what you decide. I'd like to see some pix if you decide to do this

Gary

Post by **Cal_Gary** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:02 am

Well I now see after reviewing these posts that Greencom is the Vortec guy not Antpreson but the logic is the same-if your gearing is synchronized correctly your swap may work just fine.

Oh, Lifer, my family had a run on Oldsmobiles too-'61, 64, 2 '67s and a '70 Delta 88 with the 455-the '64 with the 394 V-8 kicked some butt too, huh!
Gary

greencom · Post by **greencom** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:28 am

Cal_Gary wrote:Well I now see after reviewing these posts that Greencom is the Vortec guy not Antpreson but the logic is the same-if your gearing is synchronized correctly your swap may work just fine.

Oh, Lifer, my family had a run on Oldsmobiles too-'61, 64, 2 '67s and a '70 Delta 88 with the 455-the '64 with the 394 V-8 kicked some butt too, huh!
Gary

Actually I'm not a "Vortec guy" it's the engine I have in my GMC Sierra and the one I know anything about, I really do not have a brand loyalty, I just look at the specs and all I know is that the Vortec has more torque and more hp at all rpm ranges than the 230 according to the engine manual from GM. I don't know much about Chrysler engines, I never owned any Chrysler products before the M37. I'll have to look into them as possible donors. I know most M37 guys want to keep it all Mopar but it does not really make it any more compatible an engine come swap time. For various reasons I was never turned on by Dodges but the M37 is my kind of truck either as a restoration or as a fun beater beast, and my beater needs new cheaper power.

Greencom

antpreson · Post by **antpreson** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:14 pm

I appreciate all the input so far and look forward to hearing some more. I'm not much of a motorhead but can turn a wrench and sure am open to advice. I do understand the differences between the gas and diesel as far as torque go.

I don't want to do a swap twice for sure. Thats why I'm looking for input here. The 230 (and I don't want to offend anyone) is just too weak. I can't help but think a V6 with original trans and 4.89 diffs would be just about right for a guy with a budget to limited to go with a 4bt and different trans.

Again, thanks for ringing in.

Juan · Post by **Juan** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:34 am

there's no need to go the 4BT way if you have a tight budget, a Dodge 318 or 360 from an old truck is way better than a v6 and probably around the same money.
If you are not a Mopar Purist you can't beat the cost of a Chevy 350, everything is a lot cheaper than mopar and there's a lot more aftermarket parts for it.

bubba_got_you · Post by **bubba_got_you** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:37 am

antpreson wrote:I appreciate all the input so far and look forward to hearing some more. I'm not much of a motorhead but can turn a wrench and sure am open to advice. I do understand the differences between the gas and diesel as far as torque go.

I don't want to do a swap twice for sure. Thats why I'm looking for input here. The 230 (and I don't want to offend anyone) is just too weak. I can't help but think a V6 with original trans and 4.89 diffs would be just about right for a guy with a budget to limited to go with a 4bt and different trans.

Again, thanks for ringing in.

i have to dis agree about the 230 being week ( this coming from a guy who put a dump truck 318 and tranny in his truck) it does and still does exactly what it was designed to do it moved a shi* load of stuff back and forth over rugged trails. now it you only look at hp yes it would seem week but there are other factors. but here is my opinion the modern v6 with a short stroke will not have the torque to do what the truck was designed to do. also the v 6 will not get any better gas millage (not worth the power loss) than the v8. my v8 only has 200hp but it moves the truck at 65 mph and in low range 4x4 it WILL NOT STOP!

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