In tank filter and ethynol fuel

[m37jarhead]

There's been some talk on g741 postings that M37 in-the-tank fuel filters disintegrate
in time from ethanol fuels.
I spoke to John Bizel from MidWest Military at the show in Iola, Wis. a few weeks ago
about this issue. John says the ethanol blended fuels will NOT affect the in-the-tank filters.

Has anyone had first hand experience with these filters failing from ethanol fuels?

[milstencil]

See my post here: http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php ... 690#p37690
And the next time you see John, tell him I have a Racor filter full of the fibers from the in tank
filter for him to look at.
Rick

[m37jarhead]

Rick:
Your experience with your in-the-tank fiber filter has got me scared to death.
Is it possible that the filter that disintigrated in your tank is a zillion years old?

I still have the old filter that I took out of the tank and a new one recently purchased.
I'll just soak both of them in some "E" gas to see if I can detect any deterioration.
Don't want the same problem you've had.

Others on this site need to be aware of this potential problem. Might save everyone
a whole bunch of headaches.
Thks,
JB

[WarrenD]

My truck was run with ethanol in the gas for several months before I bought it and for several more after purchase. I never had that problem, even though the in tank pick-up had sat dry for at least 7 years. I put a new pick-up unit in the reconditioned tank last fall ( just about a year ago) and to date I don't see anything collecting in the fuel filter below the carb. Maybe I will some day, maybe not. Given the number of M37's with OEM fuel systems I would think if it were a widespread problem we'd being hearing more about it. I use an ethanol stabilizer so maybe it's a water issue, or maybe related to a different gas additive?

[milstencil]

The old tank was beyond repair and I had a NOS tank, pulled that filter and replaced with a NOS one.
Its been in the truck about 8 years and I have been noticing little brown fibers in my filter before the
carb for awhile. Two years ago I put a Racor water separator and filter inline close to the tank to relieve
any water separation problems with the ethanol gas as the truck sits. I have since noticed the fibers in the
bowl at the bottom of the filter and in the filter element.
So, the tank is being Renued ($$$) and I will run the pickup with out the filter and rely on my Racor to filter
any junk out.
What we are dealing with here is 60 year old technology, was the bonding agent used to make the filters
compatible with todays fuel mixtures?
These filters that are NOS are how many years old??
Have guys just noticed crud in their filters and pulled the tank and had it cleaned thinking it was rust,
or did they just replace their inline filters? These brown fibers look like rust in the filters.
My conclusion is to remove the filter, run a GOOD in line filter(my Racor is 2 micron) and I am able to get
non ethanol gas for the truck.
Rick

Warren, have you checked to see if your additive is really compatible with ethanol gas?
http://www.fueltestkit.com/is_gas_addit ... _list.html
Disclaimer: I do not sell stuff from fuel test kit, just use the site for reference.

[m37jarhead]

Very good advice Rick. I think I'll leave the NOS in-tank filter out permanently.
I've already got the screw-on canister fuel filter between the tank and the electric
fuel pump and the "see-through" plastic filter between the fuel pump and carb.
That system will take care of crud in the tank and any rust particles from
inside the fuel lines.
Thanks for your input.
JB

[WarrenD]

I'm using Lucas ethanol treatment and according to the label, it does not contain alcohol. It's not on the list you referenced, but it does meet/exceed the criteria they used. I also use a generous amount, keep the tank nearly full most of the time and run the truck a decent distance every week or two. It's not sat more than 2 weeks since I bought it this time last year. I'm not going to say I won't have a problem, and I agree with alot of what you infer about NOS stuff. Pinion seals are NOS, but the materials are 50-60 years old, before they see "service". I've switched to the modern seal and insert that I got from Charles after my "new" replacement seal gave out after 8 months. Fan belts, hoses and the like need to be modern if the vehicle is going to be driven more than on and off a trailer. I've replaced all my rubber fuel line components and will watch for signs of "fibers" after which I'll remove the in tank filter.
I appreciate everyone's experience, just because I haven't been bitten yet doesn't mean it isn't coming......

[jim0311]

Replaced a plugged in line filter and noticed a lot of brown garbage comeing out of it, the new filters been in about three weeks and I can see the crud in this already. Pulled the in tank filter and drained and cleaned the tank, the tank was clealn no crud, inspected the in tank filter and found it to be the source. Tomorrow I have to clean out the lines and fuel pump. No more in tank filter I'm useing inlines from now on. I should have known this about Ethanol because my RC planes have to be run out of gas at the end of the day to prevent the Ethanol from defeating the carbs pump diaphram.
Jim

[milstencil]

Update,
Have been running for 8 months WITHOUT the in tank filter
and both my racor and small inline filter at the carb are
totally clean.
Conclusion: The in tank filter WAS the source of all the crud in the filters
previously
Rick

[m37jarhead]

Rick:
I'm with you now. Putting a NOS tank filter is not the answer. The canister
fuel filter on the rear of the frame on my M37 should take care of most anything.
And the two "see through" filters further up line should be more than
enough.
Besides.... removing the tank filter for inspection or replacement is a big
hassle. Once I buttion down the intake tube on top of the tank, I don't ever
want to take it apart again.
Thanks,
Jerry

[m37jarhead]

OK... so I've decided NOT to use the NOS in tank filter. Today I put the NOS filter in a glass
jar filled with ethynol blend gasoline. Guess I'll just let it set there for a month or a year to
see if I can detect any signs of deterioration and lose fibers. Stay tuned !!
Jerry

[milstencil]

Guys,
Found the below in MV mag. I'm going to order one and see
if it works. May be the answer to the filter problems. Sold
by a dealer who is banned from a couple of forums so.....
Jerry, I don't think the problem is caused by the filter "sitting"
in the gas, but by the action of the fuel pump pulling the gas
through the filter. The electric pumps have a greater and more
consistent suction than the mechanical pumps

Rick

[m37jarhead]

Guys,
Found the below in MV mag. I'm going to order one and see
if it works. May be the answer to the filter problems. Sold
by a dealer who is banned from a couple of forums so.....
Jerry, I don't think the problem is caused by the filter "sitting"
in the gas, but by the action of the fuel pump pulling the gas
through the filter. The electric pumps have a greater and more
consistent suction than the mechanical pumps

Rick

Rick:
Is the "dealer" that you mentioned banned from the g741 forum? If not, it might be nice to know who that is. This new type of in tank
filter may be the ultimate solution. Specially for M drivers not currently using a spin on cannister type fuel filter.
I see the ad mentions M37, M38 and M38A1. Now I'm also wondering if other M series trucks have stock in tank filters. M151's maybe?
Can't think of any other M series gas rig's.
My concern is that using any type of in tank filter still requires changing and/or checking and possibly replacing. As mentioned before,
I would only want to install a new filter one time. Even a renewed tank could collect rust and crud from a neighborhood gas station.
So, with the cannister filter on my M, I've put an end to using in tank filters. BTW... I think I've posted a few pics of that installation
on my Gallery.
Thanks for the info on the new filters available, now we all have other options.
Jerry

[milstencil]

Got the "new" filter today. Well built and all stainless steel.
Got it from D e B e l l a jeep parts.
This should be the answer to those fiber filters.
Rick