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Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:32 pm
by Elwood
slk wrote:One other quick question is what type of gear oil goes in these winches. I use to know but I have forgotten.
Steve
See:
http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8106
Do NOT use John Deere Corn Head grease, regardless of what some sources might recommend.
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:17 pm
by NAM VET
Mobil 600 EP, I bought a gallon via the Walmart on-line site, it is thick as honey. Barely pours, same as in the steering box. wasn't expensive.
NV
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:05 pm
by isaac_alaska
I had 5 gallons in a metal can given to me by the distributor because it had "'passed it's expiration date" and was going to get tossed. i think mine is shell brand and i went with 460 instead of 600 because of the colder climate here
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:33 am
by slk
The ISO 460 stuff is not all that easy to find on a shelf anywhere around me. When I look on line you see a lot of the synthetic stuff out there but it comes with a price. NAPA doesn't have a clue, nor does any other auto stores. I do not want or need 5 gallons of the stuff. How much should the stuff cost. I do not see anyone selling quarts so I guess a gallon would be what you have to buy.
Steve
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:56 am
by NAM VET
my gallon was cheap from the on-line Walmart shopping site, I think was about 26 bucks or so for the gallon, not much to ship it. Jeeze, it is thick stuff. I think there is a 460 version and a 600 version, I can't recall now which I have under my work bench.
NV
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:33 am
by slk
Ok guys I just got through a week of hech trying to get the yoke off of the winch for the PTO. The shear pin was sheared for sure so that was not a wasted effort. I got it all put back together and the winch is doing the same thing as before. It will wind about one turn on the drum and turn loose, and then if you don't put any pressure on the cable it will wind it up. The min you add any tension is slips, and then will start up again. Originally I was pulling a log and it slipped, and I thought the shear pin would solve the problem, but it has not. Any suggestions are welcome. I took the cable off the winch to lighten the load because I am sure I will have to tear into the winch or have someone look at it. Let me know guys what I should look at next..
I suppose the oil is the least of my problems right now. What a bummer...
Thanks
Steve
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:53 am
by MSeriesRebuild
slk wrote:One other quick question is what type of gear oil goes in these winches. I use to know but I have forgotten.
Steve
Worm gear lube is the correct oil, ISO 460 is the correct grade. This can be most easily purchased from industrial lubricant jobbers.
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:57 am
by MSeriesRebuild
slk wrote:Ok guys I just got through a week of hech trying to get the yoke off of the winch for the PTO. The shear pin was sheared for sure so that was not a wasted effort. I got it all put back together and the winch is doing the same thing as before. It will wind about one turn on the drum and turn loose, and then if you don't put any pressure on the cable it will wind it up. The min you add any tension is slips, and then will start up again. Originally I was pulling a log and it slipped, and I thought the shear pin would solve the problem, but it has not. Any suggestions are welcome. I took the cable off the winch to lighten the load because I am sure I will have to tear into the winch or have someone look at it. Let me know guys what I should look at next..
I suppose the oil is the least of my problems right now. What a bummer...
Thanks
Steve
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:09 am
by MSeriesRebuild
MSeriesRebuild wrote:slk wrote:Ok guys I just got through a week of hech trying to get the yoke off of the winch for the PTO. The shear pin was sheared for sure so that was not a wasted effort. I got it all put back together and the winch is doing the same thing as before. It will wind about one turn on the drum and turn loose, and then if you don't put any pressure on the cable it will wind it up. The min you add any tension is slips, and then will start up again. Originally I was pulling a log and it slipped, and I thought the shear pin would solve the problem, but it has not. Any suggestions are welcome. I took the cable off the winch to lighten the load because I am sure I will have to tear into the winch or have someone look at it. Let me know guys what I should look at next..
I suppose the oil is the least of my problems right now. What a bummer...
Thanks
Steve
My next move would be a complete tear down, thorough cleaning, and inspection. It could be as simple as a loose set screw on the clutch fork / shaft assembly, or a problem going on inside the worm gear housing. Since a combination of several issues could be in play, really doesn't make since at this point not to check out the entire unit. Call us back again if you need to, happy to help. If I'm interpreting correctly what appears to be a socket head cap screw in the yoke end of the worm gear shaft, that raises my curiosity as to what someone may have done there. Could someone have tried to piece something together?? I thought I had pretty much seen it all, but I believe that is a new one for me.
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:29 am
by slk
Charles. I took the right side off just now and with the shifter in the engaged position, and the clutch dog out I can move the clutch fork up and down 1/2 inch. I other words the clutch fork rotates on the shaft. It has that much movement with the shifter engaged. Could that be the issue?
Steve
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:06 pm
by MSeriesRebuild
slk wrote:Charles. I took the right side off just now and with the shifter in the engaged position, and the clutch dog out I can move the clutch fork up and down 1/2 inch. I other words the clutch fork rotates on the shaft. It has that much movement with the shifter engaged. Could that be the issue?
Steve
Absolutely that could be it. Do you see evidence that the clutch dog could have been jumping out of engagement with the drum dogs? We see that issue in almost every one we pull down. Usually the set screw bore in the shaft is ruined so that a screw will not lock properly. Generally takes a new shaft, new set screw, and a heli-coil being installed in the fork to cure the problem. Also advisable to replace the oil seal with the new shaft on the top end of the shaft under the clutch shaft handle to keep water out of the clutch housing. Original shaft is most often horribly rust pitted in the seal mating area. You must remove the saucer type expansion plug on the bottom end to access the snap ring holding the shaft in the housing in order to get the shaft out. We have parts in stock, call us if you need us.
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:42 pm
by slk
Yes you can see both dogs rolled up on the edge somewhat. I have cleaned them up, and got the surfaces flat again. The screw bore looked good to me. Not rounded. I took the set screw out and was able to install it back in after cleaning it out and it has tightened up pretty darned good. The is no play or slop in the fork now. I just have to figure out how to get it back together without letting that spacer fall out. That looks like it will be a challenge. All I can do is try it and see if it works. I use the winch so infrequently but it is nice to have it working when you need it.
I think the problem with the shifters is that people must have beat on them to get them to engage instead of rotating the drum and letting it pop in correctly.
Steve
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:40 pm
by MSeriesRebuild
slk wrote:Yes you can see both dogs rolled up on the edge somewhat. I have cleaned them up, and got the surfaces flat again. The screw bore looked good to me. Not rounded. I took the set screw out and was able to install it back in after cleaning it out and it has tightened up pretty darned good. The is no play or slop in the fork now. I just have to figure out how to get it back together without letting that spacer fall out. That looks like it will be a challenge. All I can do is try it and see if it works. I use the winch so infrequently but it is nice to have it working when you need it.
I think the problem with the shifters is that people must have beat on them to get them to engage instead of rotating the drum and letting it pop in correctly.
Steve
The set screw gets loose, people continue to use them until things start to break. That screw once tight has to be stacked, if not, it will be loose again before you can turn around twice. It is best to use RED lock-tite liberally, tighten securely, then stack it to the fork very well.
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:47 pm
by Elwood
slk wrote:Yes you can see both dogs rolled up on the edge somewhat. I have cleaned them up, and got the surfaces flat again. The screw bore looked good to me. Not rounded. I took the set screw out and was able to install it back in after cleaning it out and it has tightened up pretty darned good. The is no play or slop in the fork now. I just have to figure out how to get it back together without letting that spacer fall out. That looks like it will be a challenge. All I can do is try it and see if it works. I use the winch so infrequently but it is nice to have it working when you need it.
I think the problem with the shifters is that people must have beat on them to get them to engage instead of rotating the drum and letting it pop in correctly.
Steve
The clutch dog engagement faces are back cut, to keep the dogs engaged under load. If the faces are perpendicular to the axis of the drum shaft (which could be a previous owner's idea of a "repair", or the result of mistreatment of the winch), then they could slip out of engagement.
Some thread locker on that clutch set screw is a good idea.
Here's a Braden publication with some good information about these winches:
http://www.winchesinc.com/catalog/media ... 758744.pdf
Re: Braden Winch Problems
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:49 pm
by Elwood
MSeriesRebuild wrote:slk wrote:Yes you can see both dogs rolled up on the edge somewhat. I have cleaned them up, and got the surfaces flat again. The screw bore looked good to me. Not rounded. I took the set screw out and was able to install it back in after cleaning it out and it has tightened up pretty darned good. The is no play or slop in the fork now. I just have to figure out how to get it back together without letting that spacer fall out. That looks like it will be a challenge. All I can do is try it and see if it works. I use the winch so infrequently but it is nice to have it working when you need it.
I think the problem with the shifters is that people must have beat on them to get them to engage instead of rotating the drum and letting it pop in correctly.
Steve
The set screw gets loose, people continue to use them until things start to break. That screw once tight has to be stacked, if not, it will be loose again before you can turn around twice. It is best to use RED lock-tite liberally, tighten securely, then stack it to the fork very well.
Charles, I'm assuming that you mean to "stake" the set screw in place? Or is "stacking" it something else?