g741.org

what other civilian vehicles have these axles,hubs etc.
thanks again

The dodge wm300 power wagon used much of the same running gear. Axles, rims, tires, transfer case (I believe). Transmission is just different enough to mess with you. Even the engines are nearly identical, aside from oil pump and distributor, but the military engine line is supposed to be a heavier casting, from what I read in one article.

isaac_alaska wrote:The dodge wm300 power wagon used much of the same running gear. Axles, rims, tires, transfer case (I believe). Transmission is just different enough to mess with you. Even the engines are nearly identical, aside from oil pump and distributor, but the military engine line is supposed to be a heavier casting, from what I read in one article.

The civilian Power Wagon rims, although of the same design and five-hole pattern, are slightly narrower than the M37 rim. See here: http://texaspowerwagon.com/Tires.htm

I don't believe that the engine blocks are different castings, other than a few detail differences such as a bolted on oil filler tube instead of a pressed in one on the civilian flatheads.

Billy, you might be interested in obtaining a copy of John Zentmyer's book TM 9-1808C Ordnance Maintenance - Power Trains and Interchanges: Military/Civilian 1941 to 1971. I think it's still available from Vintage Power Wagons, and perhaps other sources.

Also, the ORD 9 SNL G-741 parts catalog for the M37, M43, etc. includes Chrysler Corporation part nos. (the ones that begin with "CC"), which can be cross referenced with a civilian truck parts catalog. A Hollander interchange manual that covers the 1950s era (lots of them on ebay) will also give you some common parts, although this is more useful for the civilian vehicles.

Ah, learn something new every day! Didn't know about the small differences in rims. Maybe it's the military crank I am thinking of that is supposed to be stronger or better... Or maybe I'm totally mis-remembering!

With the smaller rims, does that mean the brake drums (and shoe diameter) are different between the axles used on power wagons and M37's?

Elwood wrote:The civilian Power Wagon rims, although of the same design and five-hole pattern, are slightly narrower than the M37 rim. See here: http://texaspowerwagon.com/Tires.htm

Power Wagons were available with both the 9.00x16's on 6.5" rims and 7.50x16's on 5.5" rims. Am I missing something, but aren't the non bead lock Wheels on the M37's 9.00x16's on 6.5" rims the exact same as the ones on the Power Wagons 9.00x16's on 6.5" rims?

thanks you guys!
wheel bearings and seals and such is what i wanted to know about
i walk into a napa and ask parts for a m43 and the kid looks at me like i am balancing a buick on my johnson

isaac_alaska wrote:Ah, learn something new every day! Didn't know about the small differences in rims. Maybe it's the military crank I am thinking of that is supposed to be stronger or better... Or maybe I'm totally mis-remembering!

With the smaller rims, does that mean the brake drums (and shoe diameter) are different between the axles used on power wagons and M37's?

No, the rims are still 16" diameter, just narrower in width. As Will mentioned below, the standard Power Wagon rims were 5.5" wide, with 6.5" width (same as the standard M37) as options.

W_A_Watson_II wrote:Power Wagons were available with both the 9.00x16's on 6.5" rims and 7.50x16's on 5.5" rims. Am I missing something, but aren't the non bead lock Wheels on the M37's 9.00x16's on 6.5" rims the exact same as the ones on the Power Wagons 9.00x16's on 6.5" rims?

Yes, I think that's correct. Same rims.

By "bead lock" do you mean the small metal clips that were supposed to keep the tire from sliding on the rim (and were eliminated very early in M37 production), or the demountable rims, aka "combat rims"? If the former, I don't know of any difference in the rim itself, just the addition or absence of the metal clips.

billy wrote:thanks you guys!
wheel bearings and seals and such is what i wanted to know about
i walk into a napa and ask parts for a m43 and the kid looks at me like i am balancing a buick on my johnson

Cabell Garbee has a spreadsheet of part number interchanges that might be helpful. Some of the info is getting old and out of date (especially since NAPA has discontinued a lot of part nos.), but it's still a good place to start: http://garbee.net/~cabell/PartsCross.PDF

Elwood wrote:By "bead lock" do you mean the small metal clips that were supposed to keep the tire from sliding on the rim (and were eliminated very early in M37 production), or the demountable rims, aka "combat rims"? If the former, I don't know of any difference in the rim itself, just the addition or absence of the metal clips.

Sorry, no I meant Combat Rims rather than bead lock.

I posted this in response to your question on the 'other' forum.

Aside from all the other sources for seals and bearings, check out DC Trucks.... http://stores.ebay.com/dc-truck-parts?rmvSB=true

thanks all
i bought from dc and bought the 8 sided socket while i was at it.
this place is a gold mine of info

Elwood wrote:

isaac_alaska wrote:The dodge wm300 power wagon used much of the same running gear. Axles, rims, tires, transfer case (I believe). Transmission is just different enough to mess with you. Even the engines are nearly identical, aside from oil pump and distributor, but the military engine line is supposed to be a heavier casting, from what I read in one article.

The civilian Power Wagon rims, although of the same design and five-hole pattern, are slightly narrower than the M37 rim. See here: http://texaspowerwagon.com/Tires.htm

I don't believe that the engine blocks are different castings, other than a few detail differences such as a bolted on oil filler tube instead of a pressed in one on the civilian flatheads.

Billy, you might be interested in obtaining a copy of John Zentmyer's book TM 9-1808C Ordnance Maintenance - Power Trains and Interchanges: Military/Civilian 1941 to 1971. I think it's still available from Vintage Power Wagons, and perhaps other sources.

Also, the ORD 9 SNL G-741 parts catalog for the M37, M43, etc. includes Chrysler Corporation part nos. (the ones that begin with "CC"), which can be cross referenced with a civilian truck parts catalog. A Hollander interchange manual that covers the 1950s era (lots of them on ebay) will also give you some common parts, although this is more useful for the civilian vehicles.

thank you sir
i need that book
it along with a few others will save me a lot of headsctratching

The Power Wagon doesn't use the same axles as the M37 because the axle housing itself is wider than the M37's. They do use the same rig gear/pinion/pig though.

Joe

j mccormick wrote:The Power Wagon doesn't use the same axles as the M37 because the axle housing itself is wider than the M37's. They do use the same rig gear/pinion/pig though.

Joe

and seals and bearings right?
i needed a model truck a computer at autozone would recognize.
i am not always going to have a laptop handy to buy crap on ebay when i need a consumable part

billy wrote:

j mccormick wrote:The Power Wagon doesn't use the same axles as the M37 because the axle housing itself is wider than the M37's. They do use the same rig gear/pinion/pig though.

Joe

and seals and bearings right?
i needed a model truck a computer at autozone would recognize.
i am not always going to have a laptop handy to buy crap on ebay when i need a consumable part

I haven't worked on flat fender Power Wagon axles, but the Dodge Service Manual from http://powerwagonadvertiser.com/service.html shows that the axles are very similar. As j mccormick posted, I think that the differences are in the width of the axle housing, and in the corresponding lengths of the drive shafts between the third member and the hubs (or Tracta joints in the front axle).

The seals and bearings should be the same.

Based on my personal experience, I'd be leery of relying on what the parts store's computer and/or counter guy says is the right part based on model and year. Having the manufacturer part number in hand before you go in is more likely to get you what you need. I've had good luck sourcing parts with the manufacturer p/n through places like http://www.rockauto.com or O'Reilly.

For example, the inner axle oil seal is ORDnance part no. 500057 from the ORD 9 SNL G-741 parts catalog, which has a wealth of good info in it. That catalog also shows the original parts manufacturer's number, which is CM-11647A (made by Chicago Rawhide), and the Chrysler part no., which is CC-924432. Both of these numbers can be more accurately cross referenced than looking for a seal for a '52 Power Wagon. Looking up "924432" at rockauto.com shows an SKF seal 14864.

The ORD catalog also gives the seal dimensions, if you can't find a modern cross reference, or as a quick way to verify that the cross referenced part no. has the same dimensions as the original.