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Hi Guys,

I was reading the post about the "Correct Motor Oil" and wanted to ask something. When synthetics came....out you guys are right....they didn't work well in older engines as they had no additive to cause seal swell. So all the older motors leaked. But synthetics have come a long way in the past 10 or 15 years and now they all contain a seal swell additive. I haven't put synthetic in my M yet, but I've put it in my '39 Farmall A, my '59 Farmall Cub, my old Mobark monster chipper, and a bunch of other old engines that used regular oil for years. None of them leak....or leak any worse than they did with conventional oil.

So since the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, has anyone tried a new synthetic in their M? If so, what were your results?

thanks,
bob

I'm going to go with all synthetics within the next 200 miles. I've got all new / rebuilt running gear and we'll see how things go. The gallon of worm gear lube (ISO 460) for the steering box and winch is about a $100 alone . However, compared to what it cost to restore this truck (this time), the cost is really not relevant if it prolongs the life of the truck.

We'll see if I continue on this path.....

52 M-42

We all know this topic keeps coming up. Maybe I'll just put some of my thoughts out here, FWIW.
About synthetics, where is the economy? They are much more expensive so what do you get (or what do you think you'll get) in the way of a benefit? How much do you drive your M37? My understanding of synthetics is that they last longer but is that really a criteria for our use?
For my own self, I drive my truck about 600-700 miles per year. If I were to use synthetic, how many years would I be able to go before the oil needed changing? Is it really a good idea to go that long? Conventional oils get acids from combustion, I assume that the synthetics do also. Do you want those acids sitting in there for years? If you are going to change your oil annually (or more)anyway, why incur the extra cost of the synthetics?
My daily driver runs 0-20W Synthetic which helps it get 35+mpg. I do about 25K/yr so that's 2-3 oil changes. It's worth it there. My car also runs a heck of a lot cleaner than my M.
My opinion is that for me, good grade conventional lubes will work just fine and I expect that any problems I have down the line won't be due to lube failures.

Hi Warrren,

Yeah, I know there's been much debate on this and other forums about the benefits of synthetic oils.....and I wasn't trying to pull that string. There's good cases both for and against and certainly to each his own. My only intent with my post was to see if people were still experiencing leaking issues with synthetics or if that problem had been addressed adequately by the oil manufacturers. Like I said, my experiences with synthetics in terms of causing engine leaks have been good, but I haven't put it into my M yet. I was just wondering if anyone has done so recently and what the outcome was in terms of leaks. I sure don't mean to open a sore wound with anyone.

regards,
bob

The facts on change interval. No oil, regardless of whether it is top of the line synthetic or other should be left in an engine longer than 12 months per manufacturer's instruction. That settles that question plain and simple. All top quality oils have a much stronger additive package blended in that help to combat issues common to length of time in service. Top quality lubricants will surely buy insurance in that direction up to a point, where cheaper oils don't stand a chance.

Benefits of higher end oils; that also has a simple answer. Doesn't matter if you drive 10 miles a year or 10,000; the better oil types do a better job while they are there. If you are looking at engine protection at its best, it's simple; high end synthetics of the proper type and grade should be your choice. The myth, to put it plain that a cheaper oil is just as good because you only drive 200 miles in a year is just that; a myth. Protection at its best only comes with the use of high end products; that like many other issues today brings out the statement, "you get what you pay for," has never been more true than right now. I know a gentleman who has farmed all his life, and is up into retirement years now. He would change oil in his newer tractors, strain the drained oil through a cloth, and then go drain the oil from older tractors and use the oil that was drained out of the newer stuff to fill the older engines. Wasn't long until the conversation around the heater in the local farm supply store turned to how frequently he had issues with his older John Deeres. Moral to this story; make no mistake, your engine and gear boxes will notice when you don't use the best oils. You will notice what using the cheaper stuff does to your wallet down the road when the conversation turns to how expensive it is these days to rebuild components in the old truck.

Ultimately, and in many cases, that conversation ends up at the intersection of "is keeping this old truck really worth it any more?" Larger question is who and what really made it necessary to ask that question?

The age old question abouts synthetics causing leaking has a simple answer also; if your equipment has leaking issues going on now, you will have leaking issues going on after changing to a synthetic; correctly fix the problem that is causing the leak. It is the only way you won't have leaking issues. Most questions of this nature have a very common sense oriented solution, which will apply to oil leaks in every situation of that nature I've encountered.

Well said Charles. There's no mechanic in a can. Leaks are leaks are leaks. Quality lubricants, synthetic or otherwise, do not fix leaks.
You or your mechanic have to fix those pesky leaks.
Unless, of course, you own an old, old Harley-Davison. You want it to leak. When it stops leaking you know you're out of oil.
( I knew you guys would like that one.)
JB

m37jarhead wrote:Well said Charles. There's no mechanic in a can. Leaks are leaks are leaks. Quality lubricants, synthetic or otherwise, do not fix leaks.
You or your mechanic have to fix those pesky leaks.
Unless, of course, you own an old, old Harley-Davison. You want it to leak. When it stops leaking you know you're out of oil.
( I knew you guys would like that one.)
JB

Since old Harleys use a total-loss oiling system, that's true.

As a former H-D dealer, I have to agree with Charles. When Harley first certified synthetics for their motorcycles, we experienced a lot of customers who believed that they didn't need to change oil for upwards of 10,000 miles. Since motorcycles often don't accumulate mileage like cars and trucks, 10,000 miles could be three, five or more years. Letting oil (with moisture and combustion acids) sit on the bearings for that length of time is not a good idea.

I change my oil twice a year, and drive less than 1000 per year. I think I treat my old truck pretty well. It lives in a heated garage year round and sees very little winter usage (mag chloride on the roads). Now these old motors are pretty much the opposite of high revving or high performance, so do I really need the same oils than a turbocharged 500 hp sports car needs? I think standard range oils probably work just fine, especially compared to the oils that were run in the truck for the 57 years before I had it. I run Amsoil in my 4runner and dirtbikes, but they see harder usage. I'd be more inclined to use synthetics in the transmission, transfer case and the differentials than in the motor.

ZGjethro wrote:I change my oil twice a year, and drive less than 1000 per year. I think I treat my old truck pretty well. It lives in a heated garage year round and sees very little winter usage (mag chloride on the roads). Now these old motors are pretty much the opposite of high revving or high performance, so do I really need the same oils than a turbocharged 500 hp sports car needs? I think standard range oils probably work just fine, especially compared to the oils that were run in the truck for the 57 years before I had it. I run Amsoil in my 4runner and dirtbikes, but they see harder usage. I'd be more inclined to use synthetics in the transmission, transfer case and the differentials than in the motor.

Not shooting at anyone. I think you missed a key point I mentioned in my last post. That was, " being sure you were using the best quality, and also the correct type and grade of oil that best meets the needs of the engine it is being used in," in our discussion here that would be the 230 engine in the M37. My statement about using the better oils has absolutely nothing to do with lubrication needed in a 500 horsepower sports car engine, which would in a number of ways demand a different type of oil entirely. If you feel good about running lesser quality oils, that's fine; I'm just stating facts for the benefit of whomever. The real story most times is in the additive packages that are blended with oils, this makes the difference between better and best all day long. I'd recommend you do some fact checking from reliable sources on the subject. Most folks never realize the absolute importance of the best oils until they are familiar with the whole story.

My post about the sports car motor was off base. I meant that do I need an oil of a similar cost and design for an antiquated and well broken in motor? I realize the same oil might not be intended for both types of motor. Having said that, I find it plausible that a lesser grade of oil could be fine in the T245. If I had a rebuilt motor, I would definitely go with the best I could afford or buy.

I appreciate all the info I get on this site. I am thinking of changing the transmission and transfer cases to 50w oils like the other thread mentioned

ZGjethro wrote:My post about the sports car motor was off base. I meant that do I need an oil of a similar cost and design for an antiquated and well broken in motor? I realize the same oil might not be intended for both types of motor. Having said that, I find it plausible that a lesser grade of oil could be fine in the T245. If I had a rebuilt motor, I would definitely go with the best I could afford or buy.

I appreciate all the info I get on this site. I am thinking of changing the transmission and transfer cases to 50w oils like the other thread mentioned

I see where you appear to be headed now; because of the older engine that hasn't been rebuilt. I recommend you look back a few post in this same thread. In one of my post, about half way through the post you can read about my farmer friend who felt lesser quality oil was fine in the older equipment. Really in his case, he was just too tight to let go of a dollar, and took a risk. When he became aware of his mistake, it had already become a money pit; too little too late. I could have the wrong understanding; but it sure sounds like you may be headed in the same direction as he found himself in after a while. Honestly, because it hasn't been rebuilt by you doesn't make a lesser quality oil provide the best lubrication. If the engine has reasonable life left in it; the best oil will make that life longer, plain out. Not here to argue as it is your engine, just wondering where the cut off point is when common sense kicks in I guess. I've dealt with engines and machinery in a big way since 1971, needless to say lots of mistakes and short comings also, I've learned a lot along the way. I realize most folks have not had the on hands education in that area that I have. I've been able to help a lot of people because of things I've learned over the years, while there are others I have been unable to help.

HI Charles. You have definitely helped me out a lot, an I know you have a far greater knowledge base than me. I am not talking about using cheap oil though. I am just wondering if the very best oil out there is really needed for an old motor which no doubt has seen a lot of poor oils already run through it?

ZGjethro wrote:HI Charles. You have definitely helped me out a lot, an I know you have a far greater knowledge base than me. I am not talking about using cheap oil though. I am just wondering if the very best oil out there is really needed for an old motor which no doubt has seen a lot of poor oils already run through it?

ZG, you have read my honest and best response to your question a couple of times now. Obviously the lesser quality oil will not provide the level of protection that higher end oils will, bottom line, period. The age of the engine or other factors may help determine what oil you choose to run, (only you know the engine condition and other issues), but it has no effect what so ever concerning the level of protection that is best for your engine now if it has significant life left in it before a rebuild. If you intended to tear it down next week for a rebuild, I could understand that point better in that what oil you run today won't matter much. If a rebuild is not in the very near future, lesser quality lubrication will hurt the cause until such time a rebuild comes around. Now it is your call to make your own decision and run whatever oil you wish. I know what is best, but if my answer is not what you wish to hear, there is really no need to keep asking the question as my opinion won't change.

Charles, I know what your opinion is, and I am sure it is well founded. I am just balancing cost and benefits. I know you err on the side of using the absolute best.