g741.org

Sorry to bring this subject up again. I did a search on this site for fuel pump rebuilds but could not find what I needed.
Can anyone direct me to a vendor that rebuilds M series fuel pumps that use the latest
materials that are not affected by ethanol or methanol fuel?
Any thoughts on the DIY re-build kits out there?

The business is Then and Now Automotive in Massachusetts. They have a website.... think it's Thenandnow.com or something like that. They did a nice job on my water pump as well.
Rick

Just had a look, this is the web address:

http://dragsite.tripod.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm



Cheers

They did a great job on mine also

Thanks......that's what I needed.

Well they are not a great group to do buisness with. They do have parts for pumps you can't find elsewhere. In fact I got my rebuild parts for the civilian pump currnetly on my truck BUT why is there a civie pump on my tuck you ask? Because they did not stand behind the fact that my rebuilt pump NEVER worked correctly. After sending it back to them I was told that I had sand in my tank which is BS. The civie pump has been on for 2 years no problem . So I have a 150.00 dollar pump I just left in the damn box on a shelf when I got it back . So for parts maybe but I won't send'em anything again.
Just my on experience.

John @ Midwest Military also has the pump parts. That's were I got mine from.

rixm37 wrote:Well they are not a great group to do buisness with. They do have parts for pumps you can't find elsewhere. In fact I got my rebuild parts for the civilian pump currnetly on my truck BUT why is there a civie pump on my tuck you ask? Because they did not stand behind the fact that my rebuilt pump NEVER worked correctly. After sending it back to them I was told that I had sand in my tank which is BS. The civie pump has been on for 2 years no problem . So I have a 150.00 dollar pump I just left in the damn box on a shelf when I got it back . So for parts maybe but I won't send'em anything again.
Just my on experience.

Rick, I bet I know what the problem with the pump is. The pump diaphragm center disc is likely too large for the pump housing cavity. That creates a problem in that it limits the travel necessary to create a suitable pumping action. We've ordered rebuild kits from then-now for years. I tell them every time to be sure they get the correct diaphragm in the kit. The last time I ordered, I got 2 kits, 1 was correct, the other was not. Called back, clueless; You have to insist on talking to the pump rebuild guy who knows exactly what the issue is, and can get them to send the correct part. Apparently these kit parts are put together by a bunch of clueless do nothings that only read #'s and throw in so much of this or that. They also have a problem with including only 1 pull rod oil seal. Get this; they will always have 2 seal retainer rings, but only 1 seal. How stupid is that; I mean why do you include 2 retainers if you only include 1 seal. The pump requires 2 seals, always have to call back for the 2nd one though. The last time I called, the build guy said he would change the info so the right stuff gets in the kits, we'll see next order. Talking to the owner will just make your blood boil, he's just a whiner that wants to tell you how hard he tries to help people and how unappreciative they are. News flash; if he would get his stooges that stuff the kits in bags on the right track, he wouldn't get complaints all the time. People like this make me sick in that they won't straighten out their help who likely just don't know any better than what they are doing; but instead would rather whine to the customers because they don't do stuff right.

If you have no need for the pump, I'll buy it from you. We will fix it right and have another spare on the shelf. Send me a PM if you are interested in selling it.

All the vendors get kits from Then-Now, they are the only source I know of that is making diaphragms from material that is compatible with today's gas; so putting up with their slackness is just common place.

Thanks Charles. Your explanation of the situation explains the problem. You trust a place to do a good job and they let you down, AND they are the only game in town. I was stuck because, I knew it sure as heck wasn't sand.
Actually I would really like to have the correct pump on the M. What is the possibility of getting a kit from you that you have inspected for correctness ?
I'll give you a call next week.

rixm37 wrote:Thanks Charles. Your explanation of the situation explains the problem. You trust a place to do a good job and they let you down, AND they are the only game in town. I was stuck because, I knew it sure as heck wasn't sand.
Actually I would really like to have the correct pump on the M. What is the possibility of getting a kit from you that you have inspected for correctness ?
I'll give you a call next week.

We should be able to help you there.

Charles, Rick, et.al. .............

Thanks for all the info on Then and Now. Glad I didn't send my pump off to them and get a hit or miss rebuild.

Rick: The frustration must have run high when Then and Now gave you the "sand in the tank" excuse particularly
when you use all the filters and KNOW that's not the problem. Poor customer service, poor training of employees, and
poor management by the owner. Hope it comes back to him and bites him in the butt. This forum and other automotive
forums are a way of alerting other unsuspecting consumers about lousy vendors.

Charles: You mentioned that Then and Now is the only source for the correct materials for today's gas. Wondering if they actually make up the kits or buy parts from a third party? Would be interesting to know if there is such a third party?
I could buy a rebuild kit from Then and Now and do it myself but I wouldn't know if the kit was complete and/or if it had the
correct parts and pieces. Kinda' like a Weywoka Switch. (Promise you one thing and give you another.)

The questionable item being compatible with today's gasoline is the diaphragm. Older material such as is found in NOS build kits for example will break down in short order when today's gas formulas come into contact with it. This is a huge "don't do it issue" because a cracked or torn diaphragm allows gas to dump directly into the oil pan where it mixes with and destroys the lube oil. This of course means instant destruction of bearings, and all pressure lubed engine components. If you don't happen to catch falling oil pressure, a blown engine is in your very near future.

To answer your question concerning a 3rd party source; what Then-Now spokesman have told us is that they purchase the material in bulk and have dies to cut diaphragms for various pumps, carbs, and other automotive needs. Where they continually seem to screw up the program is with the metal disc that goes on the pull rod to back up the diaphragm. There were at least 2 different disc diameters used with the same diaphragm in similar pumps of the era. The M37 pump uses the smaller diameter disc, which is only about .125" smaller than the larger one that doesn't work. They are so close to the same, it's very easy to just not pay attention and install the incorrect 1. It will go in the pump cavity and appear to fit just great until you cycle the pump. Then the too large center plate will inhibit pull rod travel to the point that there will be no pump action. It looks like everything is working great from an appearance viewpoint, but movement is restricted enough that it will not pump. Bottom line, this error is nothing but carelessness. When something like that happens here, we stop everything and get to the root cause. If that turns up carelessness on someone's part; well we fix that quickly and surely so it doesn't continue to be an issue. I can't imagine any other company allowing the issue to just drag on, and it certainly is not happening because they don't know it has been a problem. I've had the discussion personally with them more than once; however it just keeps on.

The pull rod seal issue that they can't seem to get straight either; I'm sure there is a 3rd party source for them. Then-Now's problem is they must use dummies to stuff the bags with rebuild parts. They just refuse to put the right # of seals in the bag. I tell them when I order to be sure each kit has 2 rod seals, but just as sure as the sun rises, every bag will have only 1 included, then it's a call back for additional parts that were shorted. My answer to the problem is to try to keep a few kits on the shelf; I know every one will be short these seals, so if I stay ahead on stock, I will have time to call back for shorted items before we need to install the kit. It's rather stupid, but none the less, it's how it works every time.

Charles:
Yep......ya' can't fix stupid !!
Thanks fur da' info.
JB

Gerry wrote:They did a great job on mine also

no complaints here either. I live nearby so I stopped by unannounced and they let me in the back and watch them rebuild it. Great guy. I wouldn't hesitate to go back.

Charles,

The seals that I bought from Midwest Military are for the new gas and not NOS kits. I was looking at the diaphragm seal last night and wondering if the disc is the right diameter. I measured it at just under 2.375" diameter, is that correct?

Thanks,
Bert