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pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:38 pm
by nutsfor59
does anyone out there know what the corect colors are for the tools ??? i have a 1952 m37 marine corp version and want the tools painted correctly,are they all green ?? are the heads black etc,etc,thanks
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:43 am
by Lifer
The ones I used were all OD...even the blades of the shovels, mattock heads, and axe heads. The paint would wear off with use, of course, and were seldom, if ever, "touched up."
A "well used" shovel, for example, will have traces of OD on the blade while the paint on the D handle and the shaft will be worn thin from the friction of the hands using it. Same goes for the other tools. Those are the tools I would be looking for if I were doing a "motor pool restoration."
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:53 am
by M37UK
My tools started off OD but I have removed the paint on the shafts as I like them the natural wood color to match the oak on the bed.
Cheers
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:30 am
by SOTVEN
IN THE GREEK ARMY, ALL PIONEER TOOLS WERE FLAT O.D. FROM TIP TO TIP. I WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT IS THE WAY TO GO WITH SOMETHING USED IN THE FIELD, HARDER TO DETECT BY HOSTILES IF LEFT UNATTENDED IN A RUSH SITUATION, SO IT WILL NOT GIVE AWAY YOUR POSITION. THEN AGAIN, IN THE GREEK ARMY EVERYTHING WAS PAINTED OVER AND OVER FROM TIP TO TIP. "IF IT MOVES, SALUTE IT, IF IT DOES NOT MOVE, PAINT IT" AS THEY WERE TELLING US LOL
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:07 am
by k8icu
SOTVEN wrote:IN THE GREEK ARMY, ALL PIONEER TOOLS WERE FLAT O.D. FROM TIP TO TIP. I WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT IS THE WAY TO GO WITH SOMETHING USED IN THE FIELD, HARDER TO DETECT BY HOSTILES IF LEFT UNATTENDED IN A RUSH SITUATION, SO IT WILL NOT GIVE AWAY YOUR POSITION. THEN AGAIN, IN THE GREEK ARMY EVERYTHING WAS PAINTED OVER AND OVER FROM TIP TO TIP. "IF IT MOVES, SALUTE IT, IF IT DOES NOT MOVE, PAINT IT" AS THEY WERE TELLING US LOL
That's true! I helped a guy restore a WWII MB and WWII Doge WC that had come back from lend leese to the Greeks and they must have had 15 coats of pain on them! Everything from the original WWII OD to a really funky OD/Redish Brown/Black cammo. Many different shades of OD..it was interesting.
As for the tools. I've seen painted OD to match the truck to just how they were issed by Ames. I don't think there is a right or wrong way on this.
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:33 pm
by powerwagontim
This is an interesting thread. Now, to muddy up the waters just a bit more, what would the tools on an Air Force M37 have been? Strata Blue? I will probably do mine with blue handles and black heads, but I am not going for 100% accuracy.
Tim
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:51 pm
by afvet6670
If the tools were even present on an Air Force 37 they would probably have been in the color they were issued in, probably OD... all the years I was in I don't ever remember painting any thing in Strata Blue, always in OD... trucks & staff cars were either in Strata Blue or OD, and flight line support equip (MJ-1s, power units, etc) were in either OD, and sometimes in yellow - we don't have either the pioneer rack or tools on out 37 as it's set up as a flight line truck used by the 417th TFS Gun Shop
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:09 pm
by m-37Bruce
I think Carl is right, that's the way I remember them from the Flight Line on down.....but Strata blue tools would sure look sweet!
Mine are as purchased, my mattock handle is natural, everything else is OD
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:47 pm
by cuz
I also spent 20 plus in the USAF and vehicles normally carried no tools, no spare tire and no pioneer tools on base.
When vehicles were authorized for off base ops the vehicle custodian had to sign for the spare tire, and tools that were issued from the tool crib.
The only Air Force outfits with M37's from 1966 thru 1989 that I saw were civil engineers, security forces, fire departments and mobile Red Horse and Como outfits.
Some good sources for tool data are:
http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=103612
http://jeepdraw.com/John_Barton1_Shovels.html
http://jeepdraw.com/John_Barton2-AXES.html
Also a piece written by Kevin Emdee of Star Electric is very well done and posted below:
Pioneer Tools
If there is anyone in the Detroit area who is looking for a correct shovel for the M38A1, I have found a local hardware store that stocks True Temper shovels of exactly the right length to fit in the brackets.
E-mail me off forum for address.
Shovel is a True Temper Bantam BRT-SD if anyone else wants to search for one.
For all: About three years ago, I began to offer the pioneer tools. I took the sizes for the tools from the tool lists published for the various M-series vehicles. The axe, mattock and mattock tools were straight forward. The shovel took further digging. I contacted the military sales rep for True Temper tools. He told me that the gov't specs allowed a variation in the length of the shovel. The overall length could run 34 3/4" to 36 1/4". This explains the variation in length of the shovel's shown in TB ORD 2300-2-/4, dated 18 August, 1958. It is titled "Stowage Locations For Pioneer Tools And Brackets". It has photo's showing where the pioneer tools and brackets are located on all of the Army's wheeled vehicles, starting with the M-38. There are three different kinds of shovels shown throughout the TB. The shovel lengths shown show handles protruding just over the end of the bracket and others fitting inside the frame. The shovel for the M-38 is different, than the shovels for all the other M-series vehicles. Because the M-38 body is virtually the same shape as the MB/GPW, it has to bend around the edged protrusion of the body tub in order that the shovel blade and the shovel handle lie flush against the body. This is achieved by a sharp bend or arc of the metal neck of the shovel. This sharp bend was eliminated as no other vehicle required that shape. The other shovels are more flat and were easier to make as the wood handle did not have to be shaped to match the curve of the blade neck. If you put a regular shovel on an M-38, then your handle will stick out about three inches from the body. It looks ok and most people will not notice it.
Given all that, here are the specs for the tools:
AXE: Single bit, 4 lb head weight, 4.750 inch cutting head, 31.00 inch handle length, Federal Spec GGG-A-926, type 1, class 1, design A.
MATTOCK: Pick type; without handle, 5 lb head, Federal Spec GGG-H-506, TypeII, Class F.
MATTOCK Handle, Hickory, 36.00 inch length, Federal Spec NN-H-93, type 5, Class 1, Grade B.
SHOVEL, Hand, Round point, open back construction, 12.500 inch blade length, 10.250 blade width, DF-style handle, Federal Spec GGG-S-326, Type 4, Class A, Style 1, Size 2.
In reference to painting, the tools came from the factory in civilian colors. The wood was natural and unpainted, axe heads were red, the shovels usually had a natural steel color blade with the D-handle grips being red. It was usually at the unit level, that commanders would dictate painting them to match the vehicle. Kevin.
_________________
Kevin B. Emdee
Star Electric Ordnance (M-series electric parts)
368 Big Oak Trail
Radcliff, KY 40160
1-270-877-0813 (Fax-5042)
Kevin.Emdee@comcast.net
MVPA #530
WC-56/M-274/M35A2/M-543A2/M-125
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:14 am
by Lifer
Yep! AF tools were also OD. You'd be surprised how good they look on a blue truck.
As previously mentioned, no tools or spare tires were carried on base. If going off base for any distance, a spare tire, jack and lug wrench were sometimes issued (and signed for).
Pioneer tools were carried only on tactical vehicles, which were rarely seen outside of Tactical Air Command (TAC). In convoy situations, where a number of vehicles were going to the same destination, there were a number of vehicles without such tools. We were expected to "share" them, I guess.
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:44 am
by powerwagontim
So did the tool-less Air Force trucks still have the Pioneer racks on the tailgate, but left empty?
Thanks,
Tim
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:05 am
by m-37Bruce
OK, My ax is as it came, my mattock same way, the shovel is od/black. I know the small star is incorrect for a Navy rig, the the tail-gate must have been a donor, you can see the USA # across the bottom as the ghost of the star's a also visible. ( I couldn't resist doing 'em)
When I'm finished, she will be star-less, and bearing Sea Bee identifying marks.
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:01 pm
by Lifer
powerwagontim wrote:So did the tool-less Air Force trucks still have the Pioneer racks on the tailgate, but left empty?
Thanks,
Tim
Not usually. The tools stayed with the racks, which usually stayed on the same trucks. Sometimes, though, a rack was transferred (along with its tools) to another truck. About half the rackless vehicles in our motor pool at my TAC base had holes where the racks would have been (or had been) mounted.
"Ours was not to wonder why. Ours was but to do and cry."
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:14 pm
by cuz
Red Horse CE squadrons and MOB (mobile com outfits) also usually had the pioneer tools irregardless of command.
Re: pioneer tools correct colors of tools
Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:38 am
by Lifer
True! I don't know about the Red Horse units, not having served in one, but the 3rd and 5th Mob even had tool racks mounted on civvy-type trucks from time to time. When I was in the 507TACCS at Shaw AFB, SC, we worked closely with the "Mighty Motin' Gators" of the 5th Mob and I remember seeing tool racks on one of their 2 1/2 ton International Load Stars and on the back of one of their Ford 1/2 pickups during one of my deployments.