g741.org

Hi Guys,

I got my order from NAPA today and most of my front and rear axle bearings and races have been replaced with Japanese versions from the Timkens that I ordered.

Timken 28682 replaced with Japan NTN version.
Timken 23100, 23256 2924 and 2984 replaced with Japan KOYO versions.

Should I keep the Japanese versions or return them and find the Timkens elsewhere? I don't know anything about the Japanese companies.

NAPA only had their USA made version (14864) of the front inner axle seals (National 480630). Should I use their brand?

Thanks.

The Japanese have excellent engineering abilities and quality control procedures these days. I'd hesitate on buying Chinese parts, though.

The Japanese bearings seem to hold up ok. Next time you need bearings order from a bearing supply company. Then you'll get what you ordered.

The closest bearing supply companies are about an hour away. I've had good luck with my local NAPA in the past. Charles was correct though about NAPA's cost. Pretty high.

I did a Google search about the Japanese bearing companies and they are big internationals. The KOYO company is now combined with Torrington Bearing.

The reason I'm asking about the Japanese quality is that I've got the both axles apart and don't want to repeat the rebuilds for a bad bearing in a couple of years. I haven't installed the bearings/seals so I could return them if necessary.

Cuz,
The NTN is an excellent bearing and I dare say probably is superior to the Timken. Trust me when I tell you Timken is no longer the name what it once was. Timken is producing items all over, the days of your Timken taper rollers coming exclusivley from Canton, Oh are long gone. Even SKF/MRC now has plants in Argentina and Mexico. Chances are now if you buy a differential kit from Timken, it will probably contain NTN, NSK, or Koyo as Timken's plant capacities are only 40% of what they were 20 years ago, so they buy from other vendors. Thay cannot supply even half of the part numbers they once offered. I called to get lead time on a Fafnir (now owned/destroyed by Timken) spindle bearing and they told me 44 weeks...Timken closed many plants. Now when they try to increase capacity, they cannot find skilled workers to man the lines. Go figure. I have a customer who's basic math and reading skills test for employment is at a 9th grade level. 20 out of 100 applicants pass.
NTN is OEM for Honda, NIssan, and many other top automotive names. I sell to a trans shop who only buys NTN. Koyo is also a good bearing, where the NTN is a 10, the Koyo is about a 9. Most Japan bearings are decent. When buying bearings stay away from the bottom feeders out of China, Slovakia,Hungry, ect....National is still a decent seal, who BTW, is now owned by Timken... .

I meant to address the above to JG...

Great info! Thanks for the help.

HingsingM37 wrote:Cuz,
The NTN is an excellent bearing and I dare say probably is superior to the Timken. Trust me when I tell you Timken is no longer the name what it once was. Timken is producing items all over, the days of your Timken taper rollers coming exclusivley from Canton, Oh are long gone. Even SKF/MRC now has plants in Argentina and Mexico. Chances are now if you buy a differential kit from Timken, it will probably contain NTN, NSK, or Koyo as Timken's plant capacities are only 40% of what they were 20 years ago, so they buy from other vendors. Thay cannot supply even half of the part numbers they once offered. I called to get lead time on a Fafnir (now owned/destroyed by Timken) spindle bearing and they told me 44 weeks...Timken closed many plants. Now when they try to increase capacity, they cannot find skilled workers to man the lines. Go figure. I have a customer who's basic math and reading skills test for employment is at a 9th grade level. 20 out of 100 applicants pass.
NTN is OEM for Honda, NIssan, and many other top automotive names. I sell to a trans shop who only buys NTN. Koyo is also a good bearing, where the NTN is a 10, the Koyo is about a 9. Most Japan bearings are decent. When buying bearings stay away from the bottom feeders out of China, Slovakia,Hungry, ect....National is still a decent seal, who BTW, is now owned by Timken... .

This info is 100% accurate, maybe I can shed a little more light. When we did the Timken M37 build back in '05, I was instructed not to use any product in the build of the mechanicals that didn't bear the Timken brand. I in turn furnished them a complete bearing and seal # list so they could supply all the needed components. We received several cartons from them with all components. The transmission was the first component to be built, I opened up the packages containing bearings, none were Timken products, but instead were all either NTN or Koyo in Timken boxes. I called Mr. Timken directly since his specs were to use Timken only, he just laughed and said it's fine to use them as we partner with other reputable suppliers. My usual supplier who represents both NTN and Koyo got a good laugh off of that one as Timken boast to be the biggest and best, yet they package and sell competitor's products under their name.

One more thing David didn't include, NTN is now partnered with BCA bearings, (Federal-Mogul). The packaging, the same familiar blue now displays both NTN and BCA logos.

We've used NTN and Koyo for years now, never the first problem. What brand have we used and opened up defective products right out of the box, I hate to say it, but it was Timken.

Ouch! Regarding the defective pieces. Maybe I should switch out my Timkens instead JK

What's odd, is on the Timken M37 build back in '05, why didn't Timken get the list of bearings and supply them rather than sending him to a supplier.

W_A_Watson_II wrote:What's odd, is on the Timken M37 build back in '05, why didn't Timken get the list of bearings and supply them rather than sending him to a supplier.

Maybe I wasn't clear with this, I sent a list of all part #'s to Mr Timken, the bearings and seals were sent directly to us from Timken. Everything was sealed in Timken packaging when we received it, however everything we opened up out of Timken boxes were not Timken products. The thing is just like David said, they can no longer offer all these components under the Timken name, thus they put NTN, Koyo, and various other brands in their packaging. They were fully aware of what was in the boxes, but did not make me aware that everything we got would not be Timken products until I called to inquire.

The way my usual supplier got involved was simply through conversation between he and I. I was telling them about what we found in the Timken boxes. They thought it funny when they learned of this, saying Timken reps were always boasting that Timken products were superior over their product lines (NTN and KOYO) only to find out that Timken was simply putting the exact same items their reps were down rating as less superior products into their own boxes and selling as Timken products.

Charles said: Everything was sealed in Timken packaging when we received it, however everything we opened up out of Timken boxes were not Timken products.

Can we also clarify that every box contained an off shore name item or that some of the boxes contained off shore named items?

cuz wrote:

Charles said: Everything was sealed in Timken packaging when we received it, however everything we opened up out of Timken boxes were not Timken products.

Can we also clarify that every box contained an off shore name item or that some of the boxes contained off shore named items?

Every piece was in individually packaged boxes just as you would purchase over the counter. All items were in Timken boxes. Some items were genuine Timken products in the box while others were in a Timken box with a Timken part#, but was actually a Koyo or NTN bearing in the box. As I recall, there was a couple of SKF's also.

The very simple original point I was trying to make is this, just because you go to a Timken dealer and order Timken bearings certainly does not mean you will open up the boxes you receive when your order comes in and find a Timken bearing inside. That theory is just as David said, "days gone by."

All this said, the thought that you can bypass places like NAPA and go directly to a bearing supply house and "get the brand you order", well that theory just will not hold water now a days.

MSeriesRebuild wrote:Maybe I wasn't clear with this, I sent a list of all part #'s to Mr Timken, the bearings and seals were sent directly to us from Timken. Everything was sealed in Timken packaging when we received it, however everything we opened up out of Timken boxes were not Timken products.

Thanks Charles, yes that clears it up.