g741.org

Decided to take the truck to the gas station earlier today during the height of the storm. I planned to get gas then to run a few back roads to test out my defroster unit then come home. Didn't quite turn out that way. Halfway to the gas sation, I misjudged my speed going around a hairpin curve in the road, and plowed into a drift about 2 1/2 feet deep. I was STUCK...... I was going uphill and just slid as I tried to rock the truck back and forth. No luck. Got out, shoveled the snow from behind each tire, then tried backing out. Made slight progress, then stuck again. Kept this up for about 15 minutes, then tried to winch myself out using my hand come-along and tow strap. Come-along worked fine, but the tow strap is one of those kind that stretches a little, so I got nowhere. Only thing I did manage to do this way was to orient the ass end of the truck to where I could back downhill without getting into the drainage swail again. So, I tossed the strap and come-along into the back, and backed downhill until I could get a good enough running start to blow through the drift. Since I was better than halfway to the gas station, I decided to keep going. I questioned my decision the rest of the way to the gas station. Finally made it a half hour after leaving the house. The trip should have taken less than ten minutes even in this snow. Made the gas station and had a non-evenful return trip. But man..... what a learning experience.

First off, I now have lost faith in NDT's. As much as I like the look, I am not sure about them now. I got zero traction once I got stuck. 4 high and 4 low did nothing but spin the wheels. I'd dig around the wheels and still they spun. Chains would have helped but of course I don't have any. Even when moving the truck was squirrely all over the road. I skidded more than once. Yeah I got through, but thought I'd have better traction than I did. Granted the snow was over 6 inches deep most of the way(it was plowed once or twice). Maybe that had something to do with it.

One bright spot was my homemade defroster unit. The thing worked flawlessly. I used the low speed setting on my heater the whole time and the defroster kept the windshield ice, and fog free. The wipers were another story. Their performance was dismal at best. Fortunately the driver's side wiper worked the better of the two, and kep working. The passenger wiper would work, then bog down and quit, then work then quit, then it just quit and didn't work again until I got into my garage. I know I've been told , and now I realize for sure, they're junk. I'm actually sorry now that I bought them, but that's water under the bridge.

Hoping the other guys out there who decided to brave the storm made out better than I did. Overall it was fun, but next time I'm staying in next to the fireplace.

Nick, did you let the tyre pressure down to 15 psi? I have used the origonal NDT's in a lot of places and the big thing when not on a grippy hardpack surface is to drop that pressure thus changing the profile of the tyre and causing the ndt lugs to bite the surface as opposed to that skinny little bit up the centre of the tread. I run a Bandag industrial tread now but the NDT's were still quite a capable tyre when I had them on, even in slushy and snowy conditions up in the mountains.
Oh - and as for chains, check about your local transport companies after winter, they will most likely have a set of 8.25-16 chains about the place that are no longer usable with their occupational health and safety guidelines but still have a lifetime of wear in them for someone like you or I, maybe you can even get them for the cost of a case of beer or two?

Best Regards - MM

That was quite an adventure Nick, but at least you didn't have to call for help from a towing company. Like MM stated, 15# in all tires works very well and will provide an amazing amount of added traction in loose snow but don't help much when the snow is packed by plowing but chains are the best way to go.

A $60. dollar electric tire siper and about 3 hours of your time would make all the difference. I'm not a fan or an advocate of the NDT's, so I can't recomend keeping them. But some siping in the tread will make a huge difference to the tire performance without ruining the look of the truck. Any tire with large flat tread blocks will benifit from some siping. Its cheapter than buying a newer set of tires.

Allow the blade on the gun to heat up for several minutes then slice into the tire making small cuts about 1/4" deep accross the face of the tread, as far apart as you like. The closer the cuts, the better the performance.
Cuts across the face of the tire increase the traction forward and backward. Cuts inline with the face of the tire increase the lateral traction, or side to side traction.

As for lowering the pressure - great idea, always works for gaining traction in slippery environments; kills mileage however and probably isn't safe for use at any road speed above 20 mph - but in a pinch, will usually gain enough traction to get out the ditch...

Yes, not a good idea to run 15 PSI on hardtop at 40 MPH. The extra loads and heat generated at the sidewall can seriously damage the tire. The NDT's and NDCC's were aways marginal on hard slippery surfaces but from WWII until the Humvee they were in the Military's mind an adequate compromise. Off road mud and deep snow was wonderful. Sand was OK when pressure was reduced. Hard surface snow and ice were just barely adequate in most cases. Hard surface clean and dry was wonderful. Probably adding about 300 to 400 pounds of weight to the bed would have helped more with the rear tire traction then lowering the pressure would. Especially when you have something like the drift in front you were pushing against.

When I got stuck, I didn't even think to lower the tire pressure. And the sad thing was ,I was told by a guy at my son's scout camp to do just that to get better traction in the snow. We had nonchalantly been talking about driving in the snow a few weeks ago. I mentioned taking my truck for a drive the next time it snowed. This guy has a late model Jeep(one of those 4 door ones) and he mentioned that he always lowers his tire pressure when he ventures out in the snow. Hind sight is 20/20, and trust me next time I venture out, I'm either going to lower the pressure beforehand, or if I find the driving squirrely will get out and drop the pressure down a bit. Will be tossing a tire gauge into the glove box today. I have an extra one in my tool box that isn't doing me any good there.

Master Yota wrote:A $60. dollar electric tire siper and about 3 hours of your time would make all the difference. I'm not a fan or an advocate of the NDT's, so I can't recomend keeping them. But some siping in the tread will make a huge difference to the tire performance without ruining the look of the truck. Any tire with large flat tread blocks will benifit from some siping. Its cheapter than buying a newer set of tires.

Allow the blade on the gun to heat up for several minutes then slice into the tire making small cuts about 1/4" deep accross the face of the tread, as far apart as you like. The closer the cuts, the better the performance.
Cuts across the face of the tire increase the traction forward and backward. Cuts inline with the face of the tire increase the lateral traction, or side to side traction.

As for lowering the pressure - great idea, always works for gaining traction in slippery environments; kills mileage however and probably isn't safe for use at any road speed above 20 mph - but in a pinch, will usually gain enough traction to get out the ditch...

Although I've read about tire siping and it may increase traction a great deal, I'm not going to be doing that. Don't want to risk ruining my tires as I've never done this before. Plus, I don't drive the truck enough in snow or mud(the latter not at all) to make siping a worthwhile endeavor. Lowering tire pressure or a set of chains is the way I'm going to go. Or simply stay home.

Nickathome wrote:

Master Yota wrote:A $60. dollar electric tire siper and about 3 hours of your time would make all the difference. I'm not a fan or an advocate of the NDT's, so I can't recomend keeping them. But some siping in the tread will make a huge difference to the tire performance without ruining the look of the truck. Any tire with large flat tread blocks will benifit from some siping. Its cheapter than buying a newer set of tires.

Allow the blade on the gun to heat up for several minutes then slice into the tire making small cuts about 1/4" deep accross the face of the tread, as far apart as you like. The closer the cuts, the better the performance.
Cuts across the face of the tire increase the traction forward and backward. Cuts inline with the face of the tire increase the lateral traction, or side to side traction.

As for lowering the pressure - great idea, always works for gaining traction in slippery environments; kills mileage however and probably isn't safe for use at any road speed above 20 mph - but in a pinch, will usually gain enough traction to get out the ditch...

Although I've read about tire siping and it may increase traction a great deal, I'm not going to be doing that. Don't want to risk ruining my tires as I've never done this before. Plus, I don't drive the truck enough in snow or mud(the latter not at all) to make siping a worthwhile endeavor. Lowering tire pressure or a set of chains is the way I'm going to go. Or simply stay home.

Fair enough - although with cutting into face there is no chance of damaging the tire in anyway. The tread itself is usually deeper than that. The siping will also improve wet weather (rain) driving, and can improve braking performance.

The easiest way to explain what the cuts do is that it turns the face of the tread into individual rubber blocks. These blocks are now free to move as needed to find purchase or traction on whatever surface your traveling on. The cuts also allow water a channel to escape through and reduce hydroplanning. The job itself is about as easy as operating a butter knife. I've always hated fishing around in a snowy fenderwell putting chains on. I'll side with you on the stay at home idea...

Yota;

Yeah, if I did more driving in the snow and rain I would consider siping. Honestly this is only about the third time I've ever had my truck out in snow since I've owned it. I've had it since 03 and have waited all this time for this kind of snow. I'll make due. We're due to get another 6 to 12 this Wednesday, so I may take the truck out again and try to get stuck again! Depends on the storm and whether I take the day off though.

Master Yota wrote:A $60. dollar electric tire siper and about 3 hours of your time would make all the difference. I'm not a fan or an advocate of the NDT's, so I can't recomend keeping them. But some siping in the tread will make a huge difference to the tire performance without ruining the look of the truck. Any tire with large flat tread blocks will benifit from some siping. Its cheapter than buying a newer set of tires.

I'd like to offer a word of caution with regard to siping your tires. It sounds like a good idea, but if it were a really great idea the factory would have done it in the first place. It would not detract from the non-directional feature of the tires one bit. The siping tool you mention used to be available from J. C. Whitney for about 15 or 20 bucks. In their catalog, it was called a "tire re-grooving tool" and was generally used to deepen the grooves in a tire that was getting a bit worn. That wasn't a great idea, either!

I have to agree with Lifer, I wouldn't be cutting up any tire I was going to drive on. If the NDTs aren't getting it done and you are going to be driving in the snow a lot, consider a second set of rims with non-military tires.

True enough on both points - but let us not forget that the NDT's design is about 70 years old now. Tire performance has come along way in the last 70 years. Virtually every common tire manufactured over the last 30 years or so has had some type of siping directly from the factory. Even the military has switched away from the NDT's to a better performing tire.

NDTs have been sold in such limited quanitites to the general public that there really hasn't been a need to change the design at all. And the military was more interested in a cheap rolling rubber tire, than a tire that performs well. From the military point of view - why spend alot on tires for a truck that might have a life span of only several weeks during wartime? All the tires need to do is hold air, and be non directional. The NDT's serve that purpose quite well.

I whole heartedly agree that if winter driving is the thing, then the procurement of another set of wheels with better winter oriented rubber is the best way to go.

Lifer wrote:

Master Yota wrote:A $60. dollar electric tire siper and about 3 hours of your time would make all the difference. I'm not a fan or an advocate of the NDT's, so I can't recomend keeping them. But some siping in the tread will make a huge difference to the tire performance without ruining the look of the truck. Any tire with large flat tread blocks will benifit from some siping. Its cheapter than buying a newer set of tires.

I'd like to offer a word of caution with regard to siping your tires. It sounds like a good idea, but if it were a really great idea the factory would have done it in the first place. It would not detract from the non-directional feature of the tires one bit. The siping tool you mention used to be available from J. C. Whitney for about 15 or 20 bucks. In their catalog, it was called a "tire re-grooving tool" and was generally used to deepen the grooves in a tire that was getting a bit worn. That wasn't a great idea, either!

Cutting into the casing of the tire (below the tread) isn't a good idea. Cutting the tread itself is harmelss. The biggest problem is inconsistent groove spacing. This can lead to an imbalance in the tire. Keep the cut pattern uniform, and not too deep as to damage the casing, and some extra mileage, or traction can be achieved.

Practice on an old tire first, as practice makes perfect. Also, check with your local DOT - I know that up here, grooved tires are not DOT compliant - but cut or siped tires are ok. It all depends on the blade in the siper.
Siping isn't for everyone, and I'm not trying to pressure anyone, but it is a viable alternative to gaining all weather traction without upsetting the looks of the truck.