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jim lee wrote:Well..

The shop was one that specialized in flat head engines and it wasn't a low budget shop. I'd figured I had my bases covered. But, the engine always seemed low on oil pressure and I'd asked about it. The consensus was that old flat heads ran lower pressure so it was probably ok. I didn't press the issue and now I see I should have. Later, when I asked about the engine seizing at 6k miles I got; "Well 6,000 miles? It must have been something else then." When I found the backwards relief valve and the shims?

I sat back and thought about this entire deal. Yes it was his fault this thing died. But really, its some old guy in his mid-late 80s living in a barn. I feel sorry for the guy. I can't bring myself to call him on this. Its not like its going to teach him a lesson he can use later in life. I can take the hit, so I'll let him rest in peace.

In the end I talked to Midwest Military. They had a 10 day turnaround for a new rebuilt engine. The other local machine shop here was a month before they could even look at it. So, I just ordered one from Midwest. I figured they should know how to put one together. Comes with 12k mile guarantee too!

As always, we'll see..

-jim lee

I'll add this, that line you got about flat heads just run lower oil pressure is total crap. That is one line I would not have accepted. Maybe not a low budget shop; but offered low quality workmanship it would seem. I understand about you not wanting to go back on the older guy in a sense; but should you have taken a hit like you have? Old guy or no; Not in my mind. He accepted the job to build it for you; he is totally responsible to do it right, if that wasn't his intent; don't take the job. Agreed, you would not have taught him a lesson he would remember on the next one; but if I were him, I wouldn't have let you take a hit on a failure that was my or my employees fault. It just isn't the way we do business here. I would insist on doing the job with the same quality workmanship if I knew it was the last one I'd ever do. Finding issues like improper oil pressure or any other short comings is precisely a large part of the reason we run every rebuilt engine on the test stand before it ships out, or before it goes in one of our project trucks. If the low oil pressure had been checked into at the onset and corrected; most likely you wouldn't be in the position you are in today, and the old guy wouldn't have earned himself a bad reputation. I also wonder if the bearing that spun was installed too tight, (not enough clearance). If the spun bearing was caused due to low oil pressure, I'm really suspicious as to why at least some other bearings didn't show bad signs also??

Personally, if this were me, I would be upset with you if you did not bring this issue to my attention and offer me the chance to make it right on my dime.

The other bearings may show signs of wear, but once we found the spun one I stopped looking. I know the pistons were scuffed up but thought that may be a result of the bearing blowing chips through the engine.

Personally, if this were me, I would be upset with you if you did not bring this issue to my attention and offer me the chance to make it right on my dime.

Yes, but you have a viable ongoing business with a future and everything. Different story.

-jim lee

jim lee wrote:Well..

Comes with 12k mile guarantee too!

-jim lee

well, it should be at least twice as good!

jim lee wrote:The other bearings may show signs of wear, but once we found the spun one I stopped looking. I know the pistons were scuffed up but thought that may be a result of the bearing blowing chips through the engine.

Personally, if this were me, I would be upset with you if you did not bring this issue to my attention and offer me the chance to make it right on my dime.

Yes, but you have a viable ongoing business with a future and everything. Different story.

-jim lee

I believe you missed my point in that statement; while I certainly try to maintain a good name for the business; where it really counts is how I as a person respond to such an incident. What I'm saying doesn't have nearly as much to do with the business as it does with my personal integrity in DOING THE RIGHT THING. There will come a reckoning day for us all! You said you could absorb the loss, and that is your call, but I tend to have a little different outlook. I've been in the place before as a customer that absorbing the loss would have been really hard. With that said, I don't have to think twice about my next statement. Scenario; a person has worked hard to come up with the extra $$$ to get a needed engine build. We try to do our best, but something gets over looked, or for some strange reason things just didn't go right with the outcome. Although rare, sometimes such things just never show a good explanation. In your case, you said after 1 spun bearing was discovered, you basically stopped looking. Were the folks doing the disassembly trained or experienced to see all possible issues that could have played a part? Just talking, however I expect if we had that engine here, so we could have disassembled it carefully in search of the real issue; there would have been much more to discover. Have you thought of this? You trusted someone else to do the first oil change. I don't recall you making mention of being there to see that it was done right, offering specifics to the folks at the oil change facility as to oil type that should be used, correct servicing of the full flow type filter element, making sure the correct element was installed, etc. I can imagine how the "oil change" kids around here would react if that vehicle rolled in the door; no way would I chance leaving it in their hands expecting a good outcome. They probably don't have a clue whether they did things right or not. Even could have figured it wasn't right, but buttoned it up anyway.

One thought I can't get out of my mind is that the failure occurred within a few miles after the oil change. Honesty here, based on info you have shared, there was likely some short comings with the rebuild; but not to strongly consider the very high likelihood that something connected with that unsupervised oil change service could have been the KILLER is just off key. I'd be more careful about the next, first oil change; or you could be doing this all over again. I'm not saying you were negligent at all, I simply don't know the answer to that. I do know that getting to the bottom of why failures happen means EVERYTHING must be looked at thoroughly and closely by qualified persons.

Came a day early. First time I've ever had a machine shop not be at least 3 months late. Now we'll bolt it in and see how it works.

-jim lee

looks nice jim, good luck with it this time!

Jim,
Break it in and bring it down so we can put it on the dyno! Heck, break it in on the drive down .

Glad to see you're getting closer to running again. Was much salvageable from the other engine?

Andy

Motor's in and the truck is back on the road!

Oil psi holds at 60. The old engine ran at about 20 once it was warm. This motor seems a lot quieter than the last one. Smooth too! No more annoying little cough at idle either. So far I'm very pleased with this Midwest motor. Reasonable price and really fast lead time. (10 days + shipping)

If it holds up over the long run, I'm going to be a very happy customer!

-jim lee

Good to hear! What's a good baseline for oil pressure? I think my brown truck runs about 25... And I need to get the gauge set up on this one so it will read, as soon as I get the truck to run smoothly and more than a few minutes at a time

jim lee wrote:Motor's in and the truck is back on the road!

Oil psi holds at 60. The old engine ran at about 20 once it was warm. This motor seems a lot quieter than the last one. Smooth too! No more annoying little cough at idle either. So far I'm very pleased with this Midwest motor. Reasonable price and really fast lead time. (10 days + shipping)

If it holds up over the long run, I'm going to be a very happy customer!

-jim lee

This info you just shared about the Midwest engine in comparison to the one that failed should tell you a lot. A new engine that only holds 20 PSI oil pressure when warm and at normal operating RPM has a problem. Hope your experience with this one holds out to be a good one. I don't recall all the issues at hand back when, but do recall you had some issues of concern when the first one got built, which should have been looked into at that time. Never pay any attention when a builder comes up with the line about oh well those engines are just that way. This is becoming an all to familiar situation in all sorts of trades these days; service provider's just don't care about reputation anymore it seems, and if the customer does, they try their best to claim you are just unreasonable.

Jim:
Glad you're back up and running with, what sounds like, a professionally built engine.
I've followed this post from the beginning. Those that have chimmed in have offered
a variety of possible problems and solutions for the engine failure.

Maybe I missed it but was it possible the oil pump failed?
Did the oil change people take your truck for a joy ride or let the engine run before
they discovered they forgot to put oil in it?
Did your "old guy" rebuild come with a warranty?

Other issues that you've shown us and also sent pic's of like fouled plugs, spun bearing, oil pressure
valve inverted that had shims, low oil pressure, etc., lead me to believe that
you took it in the shorts from the "old guy." Your description, not mine.... I'm one of the old guys.

Charles is right, you usually get what you pay for.

All of us hope you get many, many miles of enjoyable, trouble-free miles on your new rebuild.
Thanks for all the detail posts.... we all went to school on your post.
Jerry Bubolz
Gilbert, AZ.

Yes, getting what you pay for is certainly more true today than ever, BUT keep in mind that can work in more than 1 direction. There are a few of those who will attach price comparable to what a top of the line professional build actually cost, yet furnish an engine like the first one Jim got.