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onetexasoldman wrote:I have just purchased a 51 m37 and have always used Amsoil and wonder is anyone knows which one to put in my trans and transfer case and how much?

If you have chosen Amsoil as your product, I would suggest you discuss it with your Amsoil representative to see if they offer a 50 weight single grade engine oil or a 50 weight blened for transmission use. We use Synergen oil in our transmissions which is a 50 weight product especially for transmission/transfer case use. Synergen is a company that offers a line of products similar to Amsoil.

Thanks I will check out Synergen

onetexasoldman wrote:Thanks I will check out Synergen

Their website is: www.synergenracing.com

Our contact person is Rowland Johnson

I have used AMSOILl 85-90 in my M38. It works great. Easier shifting, less noise, smother shifting etc. I topped of all the lubes in my new so to speak M37 with std 90wt and plan on switching to AMSOIL when I put her on the road. It has been my experience that it is good stuff. After reading the posts concerning 50wt, dose anyone have actual experience in the difference between the synthetic 85-90wt and 50wt. AMSOIL has a synthetic 50wt that I could use. I always do a 5 minute warm up before heading down the road. Even in our coldest temps (avg 20 degrees), I have never had shifting problems....Thanks...John

MSeriesRebuild wrote: Some of the 80-90 gear lubes that are recommended for differential use have ingredients that are harmful to brass parts, most of the older M37's have brass parts in the transmission synchronizers.

This is not true of today's lubes...the culprit you speak of is Sulfur, which they now bind into compounds making it harmless to brass.

IIRC, the old designation is GL-4. You'll find the majority of name-brand gear lubes are GL-4/GL-5 rated.

And again, this is a antiquated thing that typically does not apply today.

steved wrote:

MSeriesRebuild wrote: Some of the 80-90 gear lubes that are recommended for differential use have ingredients that are harmful to brass parts, most of the older M37's have brass parts in the transmission synchronizers.

This is not true of today's lubes...the culprit you speak of is Sulfur, which they now bind into compounds making it harmless to brass.

IIRC, the old designation is GL-4. You'll find the majority of name-brand gear lubes are GL-4/GL-5 rated.

And again, this is a antiquated thing that typically does not apply today.

I'll have to argue here, you need to read the spec sheets on some gear lubes, there are some GL5 rated lubes that aren't recommended where brass is present. I know Chevron's premium multi purpose gear lube is ok to run with brass, however some of the top quality products such as Hydrotex gear oils state plainly not to use it if brass is present. My suggestion to anyone wanting to run a differential type gear lube in a transmission, obtain detailed spec sheets from the lubricant manufacturer & verify the details before running it. It can cause some very real problems with synchronizers & the 3rd gear bushings in the early M37 transmission. The 50 weight heavy duty engine oil is better all the way around & it has no additives that will harm brass.

MSeriesRebuild wrote:

steved wrote:

MSeriesRebuild wrote: Some of the 80-90 gear lubes that are recommended for differential use have ingredients that are harmful to brass parts, most of the older M37's have brass parts in the transmission synchronizers.

This is not true of today's lubes...the culprit you speak of is Sulfur, which they now bind into compounds making it harmless to brass.

IIRC, the old designation is GL-4. You'll find the majority of name-brand gear lubes are GL-4/GL-5 rated.

And again, this is a antiquated thing that typically does not apply today.

I'll have to argue here, you need to read the spec sheets on some gear lubes, there are some GL5 rated lubes that aren't recommended where brass is present. I know Chevron's premium multi purpose gear lube is ok to run with brass, however some of the top quality products such as Hydrotex gear oils state plainly not to use it if brass is present. My suggestion to anyone wanting to run a differential type gear lube in a transmission, obtain detailed spec sheets from the lubricant manufacturer & verify the details before running it. It can cause some very real problems with synchronizers & the 3rd gear bushings in the early M37 transmission. The 50 weight heavy duty engine oil is better all the way around & it has no additives that will harm brass.

And to point out that motor oil is NOT shear stable as gear oil...motor oil is not gear oil...

steved wrote:

MSeriesRebuild wrote:

steved wrote:
This is not true of today's lubes...the culprit you speak of is Sulfur, which they now bind into compounds making it harmless to brass.

IIRC, the old designation is GL-4. You'll find the majority of name-brand gear lubes are GL-4/GL-5 rated.

And again, this is a antiquated thing that typically does not apply today.

I'll have to argue here, you need to read the spec sheets on some gear lubes, there are some GL5 rated lubes that aren't recommended where brass is present. I know Chevron's premium multi purpose gear lube is ok to run with brass, however some of the top quality products such as Hydrotex gear oils state plainly not to use it if brass is present. My suggestion to anyone wanting to run a differential type gear lube in a transmission, obtain detailed spec sheets from the lubricant manufacturer & verify the details before running it. It can cause some very real problems with synchronizers & the 3rd gear bushings in the early M37 transmission. The 50 weight heavy duty engine oil is better all the way around & it has no additives that will harm brass.

And to point out that motor oil is NOT shear stable as gear oil...motor oil is not gear oil...

Transmission oil specs have changed a lot in the past while. Would you like to see a spec sheet from Spicer concerning lubricants? They now specify only 30, 40, or 50 weight single grade heavy duty engine oil in their units. 30 weight spec is for cold climate. I've talked to their technician at length about it, he has told me that under no circumstances to use 90 weight, it even voids warranty. If you would enjoy arguing with them, let me know, I'll post their toll free # for you.

But Spicer doesn't equal New Process (or New Venture Gear, the newer company which has been superseded by Magna), and neither are of the age of the trans we are talking about...

You cannot simply apply today's standards to an older trans...

That is all I'm saying on the subject.

steved wrote:But Spicer doesn't equal New Process (or New Venture Gear, the newer company which has been superseded by Magna), and neither are of the age of the trans we are talking about...

You cannot simply apply today's standards to an older trans...

That is all I'm saying on the subject.

Not working with today's transmission, the Spicer 3052 & 3053A that we rebuild was designed & built back in the early 50's, same as the units used in M37's. The phone # is 800-401-9866, why don't you go ahead & call them & tell them they don't know what they are talking about. The company that now owns Dana/Spicer is Transmission Technologies Inc. or TTC Inc.

We have used the 50 weight oil in the early & late series New Process transmissions used in M37's for several years now as well as the NP200 transfer case. I've seen nothing but positive results from it. We stand behind our rebuilds, believe me if the results were not positive, I certainly wouldn't be using & recommending its continued use in units that would be repaired at our exspense if they failed. The NP200 runs much hotter than what would be considered normal, using 50 weight oil makes a significant difference in cooler operating temps. Transmissions shift easier, especially when cold, the oil circulates much more freely providing better lube on cold start up. I know what I'm talking about based on our experience here. Operators love the difference they can feel. We've never had to pull a trans back down that was running 50 weight oil, we have some operating in some pretty grueling conditions I might add. All I know to tell you is try it, you might just like it.

What are your feelings on liquid purple 50 wt oil in a np200 transfer case

FFEMT-33 wrote:What are your feelings on liquid purple 50 wt oil in a np200 transfer case

Are you referring to Royal Purple? If so, that is the top of the line synthetics out there today in my opinion, we use many of their products.

MSeriesRebuild wrote:

Nickathome wrote:Another thread mentions using a 50 weight oil in the transmission and transfer case. I simply used 80-90 weight gear oil in mine same as in the differentials. I don't remember where I got the info to use the gear oil in the trans and transfer case, but it was either in the manual or from people here. Am I wrong to use gear oil in the transmission and transfer case or is this another one of those 6 of one half a dozen of the other debates? Just need to know, thanks.

Most transmission builders these days are recommending 30, 40 or 50 weight heavy duty engine oil in their boxes. This goes by ambient temps with 30 weight being recommended for colder climates. Shifting gears is much easier in cool weather, the entire unit will run at a much cooler operating temperature. Some of the 80-90 gear lubes that are recommended for differential use have ingredients that are harmful to brass parts, most of the older M37's have brass parts in the transmission synchronizers. If the 80-90 gear oil you are using has this additive & your transmission has brass parts, problems with part failure will result down the road at some point. The 50 weight flows much easier to critical parts that may be oil starved upon start up until 90 weight warms enough to flow freely, it's just a much better choice all the way around. The only components that need 80-90 are the differentials, the winch end housings, & the steering gear box.

I thank you for thin info I had noticed the np200 and the tranny was sluggish in the morning and new it just took time for the oil to get wormed up and figured there was nothing I could do about it. After I rebuild the t-case and reseal the tranny I will be running 50 weight.

As a new M37 owner I thought nothing of putting whatever 90W I found in the transmission. Most available now is GL5 rated that I now realize is not good for the brass synchros. Your eariler post recommends Chevron Delo RPM straight weight 50 for the transmission. See Chevron info at:

http://www.chevrondelo.com/en/aboutdelo/default.asp

I don't find Delo RPM on Chevron's web site when I went looking for the spec sheet. Is this still your oil of choice? Have you looked at Penzoil Synchromesh? See Penzoil Synchromesh at:

http://www.stealth316.com/misc/pennzoil ... ummary.pdf

It is not weight rated, but an Penzoil Technical Information lists it as aprox. 80W.

The concern with oil for our transmissions is the extreme pressure (EP) additives that contain sulfur-phosphorus compounds that can be corrosive to "yellow" metals. One post on another forum gave a bad report on Penzoil Synchromesh oil. It seems that after 2500 miles the oil was silver in color indicating a bearing problem.

On another note, I have been running Shell Rotella in the engine. Flat tappet motors need zinc for the metal-to-metal contact between the cam and tappets. The 15-40 seems to work well and was recommended by someone that restores vintgage sports cars for a living. Any comment here?

sunsetoutpost2 wrote:As a new M37 owner I thought nothing of putting whatever 90W I found in the transmission. Most available now is GL5 rated that I now realize is not good for the brass synchros. Your eariler post recommends Chevron Delo RPM straight weight 50 for the transmission. See Chevron info at:

http://www.chevrondelo.com/en/aboutdelo/default.asp

I don't find Delo RPM on Chevron's web site when I went looking for the spec sheet. Is this still your oil of choice? Have you looked at Penzoil Synchromesh? See Penzoil Synchromesh at:

http://www.stealth316.com/misc/pennzoil ... ummary.pdf

It is not weight rated, but an Penzoil Technical Information lists it as aprox. 80W.

The concern with oil for our transmissions is the extreme pressure (EP) additives that contain sulfur-phosphorus compounds that can be corrosive to "yellow" metals. One post on another forum gave a bad report on Penzoil Synchromesh oil. It seems that after 2500 miles the oil was silver in color indicating a bearing problem.

On another note, I have been running Shell Rotella in the engine. Flat tappet motors need zinc for the metal-to-metal contact between the cam and tappets. The 15-40 seems to work well and was recommended by someone that restores vintgage sports cars for a living. Any comment here?

My oil of choice for trans and transfer is 50 weight that is blended for transmission use. Our brand is Synergen. Spicer specs call for 30, 40, or 50 weight heavy duty engine oil, lighter weights being recommended for cold climates. The Synergen that is especially blended for gear box use has come about since the engine oil spec was written, other suppliers offer it now also. You need to look at suppliers who service the heavy duty transportation industry. You won't find it at Wal-Mart or most auto parts stores.

A quick analysis of Pennzoil, I would just as soon to have high grade urine.