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Master Yota wrote:

Kaegi wrote:I read they were contracted bythe US. the only reason they know how to build a 4x4 was because after WW2 we sent thousands of MVs there to be depot rebuilt for the Korean conflict. they took the WC 1/2 ton front axle design with Rzeppa (aka birkfield) joints, same steering design, and the smaller size of a jeep and came up with a land cruiser. so without Dodge there would be no succesfull toyota 4x4s. they dont invent much. expecialy back then. Land Rover essentially did the same thing but went a totaly different route on the frame design. So at the end of the day everything else is a wannabe Dodge and charge them extra when you winch them out of the mud hole.

Toyota was contracted by the US in 1950 to build 100 vehicles using the Willy's Jeep specs, not the WC... After the successful run of the first 100, Toyota's "jeep" BJ series debuted as a prototype in 1951 (significantly different from the Willy's specs), and went into regular commercial production in 1953. The term "Land Cruiser" was coined as a marketing strategy in 1954, and rest is History.

So technically speaking, Toyota owes some small portion of its success, to Willy's Overland, for getting the 4x4's rolling though history (as does basically every other automobile manufacturer). Land Rover is English design through and through (prototyped from the Willy's), and they are about as close to being junk as you'd ever find with lousy wiring, poor drivetrain, and gutless engines. The only thing going for Land Rovers was the aluminum body's, but they used steel fasteners to hold them together, so they suffer from galvanic corrosion and rot out quite badly, just like everything else.
There is an old Australian saying that I've heard several times: " You can explore the outback in either a Land Cruiser, a Jeep, or a Land Rover; If you'd like to come home, take the Land Cruiser."

the only reason they say that is oz is because dodge never had enough presence. ;/) the landcruiser shares more tech with a WW2 Dodge WC1/2 ton and a WW2 Chev GMC than it does with a jeep. They rebuilt thousands of all of them and took some of the good ideas from each and went with it. in fact almost nothing except the married Tcase of the jeep is there anything similar. Land cruisers are OK but over rated. wimpy diffs and tcases when compared to an M37 or WC/PW. If I were to go in the outback I would trust an M37 over any toyota .

I think you need to go look at a Land Cruiser again.

The axles and diffs are far superior to anything offered from the factory under a WC or an M37. Power train is better as well. But its an apples to oranges comparison. The Land Cruiser has been in continuous production for 60 years, has had the benefit of modernization and they can be found the world over doing service work in the harshest environments. The same cannot be said for the WC or the M37.

I love my M37; but I threw away everything except the body and frame in order for it have a chance at keeping up with my Toyota's off road. I have an off road prepped Land Cruiser, a built mini truck, and a fully customized M37 in the stable right now. And for an outback trek, the M would still be my third choice.

Not to worry though, I'll still winch you out, and I won't charge double.

My experience with Landcruisers was with my 1978 FJ55 wagon.....
I definitely will say there are some things Toyota "borrowed" from Dodge...the driveshaft flange styles...the "banjo" style diffs,However the Toyota steering knuckles and brakes (drum) are more Willys like...
the Landcruiser engine and transmission are more GMC than Dodge.
The Toyota Landcruiser transfercase is more like a cross between a Series Landrover and a Spicer 18.

Dodge ,Willys, GMC and LandRover borrowed Nothing from Toyota.

chris olson wrote:My experience with Landcruisers was with my 1978 FJ55 wagon.....
I definitely will say there are some things Toyota "borrowed" from Dodge...the driveshaft flange styles...the "banjo" style diffs,However the Toyota steering knuckles and brakes (drum) are more Willys like...
the Landcruiser engine and transmission are more GMC than Dodge.
The Toyota Landcruiser transfercase is more like a cross between a Series Landrover and a Spicer 18.

Dodge ,Willys, GMC and LandRover borrowed Nothing from Toyota.

A fair assessment indeed. So what does that say about Toyota? A company that probably did borrow idea's from the greats in the beginning, and then reengineered them into a better package again? I call that good business sense, especially when noting that GM and Chrysler both went bankrupt, Willy's is gone, and Land Rover has been sold so many times it hasn't generated any historical significance in 25 years or more.
With Willy's now a footnote in history and GM not having anything in the stable that can play in the dirt; that only leaves the new-kid Power Wagon and the Land Rover to sponsor any kind of competition for any of the myriad designs the Land Cruiser comes in. That would be a competition I would pay to watch. Outside of North America, the big three really have very little presence. You can go to any second or third world country, and you see Toyota's getting the job done. And in those places, every vehicle is an import. The UN loves the 70 and 80 series Land Cruiser, and the ubiquitous white 2wd mini truck is a favorite among freedom fighters and terrorists alike. They don't use them because they are garbage, they use them because they are simple, reliable, and tough...

I'll admit, I'd love to go on an extended vehicle expedition through North America in my M37. At some point I'm actually hoping to get that chance. It'll draw a crowd a lot faster either of my Toyota's, so its cool factor is way higher. But I wouldn't take it off the continent...

Master Yota wrote:

chris olson wrote:My experience with Landcruisers was with my 1978 FJ55 wagon.....
I definitely will say there are some things Toyota "borrowed" from Dodge...the driveshaft flange styles...the "banjo" style diffs,However the Toyota steering knuckles and brakes (drum) are more Willys like...
the Landcruiser engine and transmission are more GMC than Dodge.
The Toyota Landcruiser transfercase is more like a cross between a Series Landrover and a Spicer 18.

Dodge ,Willys, GMC and LandRover borrowed Nothing from Toyota.

A fair assessment indeed. So what does that say about Toyota? A company that probably did borrow idea's from the greats in the beginning, and then reengineered them into a better package again? I call that good business sense, especially when noting that GM and Chrysler both went bankrupt, Willy's is gone, and Land Rover has been sold so many times it hasn't generated any historical significance in 25 years or more.
With Willy's now a footnote in history and GM not having anything in the stable that can play in the dirt; that only leaves the new-kid Power Wagon and the Land Rover to sponsor any kind of competition for any of the myriad designs the Land Cruiser comes in. That would be a competition I would pay to watch. Outside of North America, the big three really have very little presence. You can go to any second or third world country, and you see Toyota's getting the job done. And in those places, every vehicle is an import. The UN loves the 70 and 80 series Land Cruiser, and the ubiquitous white 2wd mini truck is a favorite among freedom fighters and terrorists alike. They don't use them because they are garbage, they use them because they are simple, reliable, and tough...

I'll admit, I'd love to go on an extended vehicle expedition through North America in my M37. At some point I'm actually hoping to get that chance. It'll draw a crowd a lot faster either of my Toyota's, so its cool factor is way higher. But I wouldn't take it off the continent...

Willys didn't close up shop. It was purchased by Kaiser, then sold to AMC, and became part of Chrysler. So the corporate lineage is intact, and Jeep products have been in continuous production and improvement for longer than the Toyota Land Cruiser.

Outside of North America the Big 3 have little presence? The first generation Jeep Cherokee was one of the first North American vehicles to be assembled in China. And GM is the third best selling manufacturer there. While Chrysler hasn't been a player internationally since the late 1970s, GM and Ford have had significant sales and manufacturing operations in almost every large market: Europe, South America, Australia, etc.

you need to know a little more history. Before you saw toyota pick ups full of taliban the big player prior to the 80s was Chrysler. in WW2 the WCs were spread all over the planet. you can still find them being used in the most odball countries. The Russians considered the WC 3/4 ton the most succesful wheeled vehicle of WW2 and they essentially copied the 230 until the 90s. the Isrealis won the 7 days war wtih M37s, they also built M37s up into the early 90s under license (why werent they buying toytoas? not in the same league). Chrysler pulled out of the world stage of light duty truck sales in the 70s and toyota and land rover have filled the void. All the oil countries used POwer wagons and WCs for oil exploration and development for decades. They called the land rover the donkey and the Dodge 4x4s the horse.
When you say everything under a land cruiserr is far superior then I take it you have never worked on a WC/M37/PW. they are both closed knuckle straight axle. the 1/2 ton WC uses the same type of joint as the land cruiser. the WC 3/4 ton used a bendix joint and the M37 used a trachta joint. So basically toyota did what japanese are best at. reverse engineer everytihng until it breaks then make it just a little stronger than that. the dodge runnign gear is much much stronger than old land cruiser running gear. I have wheeled with many landcruisers nad toyota pick ups. I have wheeled WCs and PWs since 1985. Ihave never gone home on a hook. never broken a diff, tcase, tranny, engine, but have seen all those thigns break on land cruiser and toytoa pick ups. they are jsut not in the same league in strength when it come to real world off road reliablity. When I get my bone stock WC done I challenge anyone with a bone stock landcruiser to offroad comparison. there is just no contest. the toytoa with 31 inch tires, leaf under design catching on everything just cant compare to the dodge with twice as much articulation, 5.83 gears, and 36 inch tires. IN fact the first time I ever went offroading I was 12 and my brother had a land cruiser. WE got stuck in a mud hole that we would have never been stuck in in a power wagon. was like 10 inches deep. should have just scrapped it after that and bought a dodge but he liked rebuilding the tcase once a year and going through steering parts once a year too. ;/)
And apprently you dont own an M37 you own an M37 body. so the reliabiltiy of what ever you built is on you not the stock design.
but dont worry I will drag you over the mountain when your pinion snaps.

Kaegi.... what you have to remember is that some people drink the proverbial Land Cruiser "Koolaid"....they won't be swayed from their opinion.....
Myself I am no purist... I like my vehicles to look the way I want, drive the way I want and be made from the parts I like ( and trust)

I have seen a few of these in Australia ,without being biased i thought they looked primitive and more agricultural compared to an M37 ,i didnt like the Timken style axles ,designed as a throw away vehicle and no hi /lo from memory .I had a Fj 40 pick up [ute ]and i hated that POS ,my power wagon would go more places than that thing and i didnt like the engineering on them, even if they do have 30mm axles and boxed and riveted frames ,i dont like the engineering on some jap 4x4s its crap .the quality control etc is good, but some of the engineering is done by people who drive around a watered down dirt test track outside Tokyo and would not know what a stump or rock looked like, the IFS 4x4s they make are rubbish ! Its easy for them to copy others like the jeep and dodge and make a mish mash and then claim how clever they are hmmm .At work every day i get asked ''has anyone got your forklift,after you finish work'' [Linde ] because no one wants to drive the New Toyota forklifts because they are a piece of junk ,if i had a dollar for every time someone asked me that question, i would be driving around in a New Unimog ha ha

Everyone is entitled to their wrong opinion... Even me...

Here's to a frosty glass of Koolaid, whatever your flavor of choice may be...

I'll take a m37 on the rocks

great pic! are those tires still available somewhere?

RMS,

I just saw that picture of your truck in the new Military Vehicles Magazine. That is a great picture.

Bert

thats too cool ! shared the pic on MVM's fb page never thought it would be published

Kaegi wrote: those tires still available somewhere?

only with a time machine

Does anyone know if the bolt pattern is the same on the FQ15 and the M37?

I do not know. You might ping Charles:
E-mail address:E-mail MSeriesRebuildWebsite:http://www.mseriesrebuild.com
PM:Send private message MSeriesRebuild

Gary